to think this is an inappropriately harsh punishment?

[whoseafraidofnaomiwolf]

I'm not sure whether I'm being a bit PLB about this situation (I suspect I might be) so am coming to the wider community of wise women for advice.

Background: PLB DS3(13) is generally a good child, well mannered, bright, funny, kind, and conscientious with his school work. He's popular with the other kids and teachers alike. Not a stealth boast (though I know it sounds that way) he's just one of those children. Yesterday at school he and his friends were mucking about at lunch time - one friend was pinching crisps and then the others would 'chase' him to get them back - all very good natured (I'm told) and within the realm of normal boyish horseplay. In this theme, one friend went to 'run away' and DS grabbed at him to stop him. He grabbed the strap of his backpack. Friend was halted in his tracks, staggered back then fell back and hit the back of head on a wooden bench causing a cut and a nasty bump. DS was horrified, apologised immediately and took friend to school first aid where he was cared for and his parents were called to take him home. DS was asked to write a report on his part in the incident.

Later yesterday afternoon my DH got a phonemail from school and I received an email to say that there had been an incident and that the school was giving DS a 'gross misconduct' for assault of another pupil. This is the most severe form of punishment the school gives before exclusion, it will stay on his school record until he leaves, and involves spending a day in isolation.

We have spoken to DS about this incident in stern terms. We've discussed actions and consequences and DS has messaged his friend to apologise and ensure that he is well (friend went home after incident). Friend is well and messaged back that he hoped DS hadn't got into trouble as it wasn't his fault. I've messaged friends Mum to acknowledge incident and express apologies & assurances that DS has been spoken to.

DS has never been in any sort of trouble before, not even a detention. I've warned him that he may just have to suck-up the punishment, but inside I am cross at how the school has handled this and escalated boisterous behaviour into something verging on criminal. AIBU to think that this is too extreme, and that it would be more appropriate for the school to be issuing him a warning - which the school behaviour policy says should come in the form of a 'yellow card' or 'red card'?

DS's isolation is due to happen on Monday, AIABU to go with him to school early on Monday with the aim of discussing this with year head to try and get punishment downgraded before he does 'time' for it? If IANBU then how would you approach defending your DC in this situation?

The fact that this has happened on a Friday and they propose punishment on the following Monday doesn't help as there's no-one available over the weekend to speak to.

I remember on crimewatch a man being charged with murder after punching another man in the face once. He knocked him unconscious and the man hit his head on the kerb and died.
We need to remember this when we raise our sons. It's important as if you asked the murderer, did you mean to kill him? I bet he'd say no. If you asked him he'd probably say no I just punched him.

Having written school references it isn't a list of the things kids have been in trouble for. It's about their strengths and what they would be good at. Seriously the school record is just in case he makes a habit of things like this to provide evidence for escalation. He did wrong he's being punished, clearly the other child's CV parents didn't consider it assault which is lucky or they could have got the police involved. He has one day in isolation and that's it, as long as he learns his lesson it will be forgotten about.

Glitter - something like that happened local to me. I also remember a boy at dcs' school punching another boy after extreme goading and provocation. The boy who was punched suffered ongoing problems with his vision. They boy who punched him was permanently excluded. He lashed out and of course he didn't intend to cause such damage. But a moment's thoughtlessness can have devastating consequences.

Assuming your ds isn't massively bigger than the other boy it would take a lot of force to pull someone over backwards who was running forwards.
If you're running forward you bend forwards generally so to go from your weight going forwards to falling over backwards is difficult.

You have to remember you have been given your ds' version, which will be biased towards himself naturally.

You also have to realise that if your ds was bullying the other lad (and not saying he is) then the other lad might well be saying "oh it wasn't his fault, please don't punish him" because of potential repercussion.

In terms of punishment, dd's school would do similar. In year 7, she was knocked over by a group of boys during "horseplay" and quite badly trampled, she was lucky not to have her arm broken-she had a bruise from her wrist to nearly her elbow. They were put into isolation the next day.

I wish I hadn't opened this thread on a Saturday evening. As a teacher it has reminded me of everything I'm finding annoying about the job at the moment - namely parents refusing to support the school or accept that their child is less than perfect.

Since September I've dealt with numerous complaints from parents unhappy that we have applied our behaviour policy to their child, querying its validity and often demanding decisions be reversed. They really are doing their children no favours whatsoever. PPs have mentioned a trend for schools to punish minor misdemeanours more severely than in the past. I know of no such trend, but the tendency of parents to support their child at all costs and refuse to believe they could have done wrong has definitely worsened in the 12 years I have been teaching. It makes our job so much harder as many pupils know their parents will support them no matter what. Like the OP mentioned she wanted her ds to know...

There is a member of staff off sick on my department this term and we have been lucky enough to find an excellent supply teacher to replace her. The kids have, as has ever been the case, 'tested' this supply teacher and she has had to apply the behaviour policy numerous times, resulting in detentions and departmental reports. The number of parents who have rung me defending their child and blaming the supply teacher for not being good enough to control them/'inspire' respect has been so depressing.

OP the best thing you could do for your son in this case is speak to him very seriously about the potential consequences of 'seatbelting' (that's what it's known as in my school) and tell him to accept his punishment with good grace. Its being on his record means absolutely nothing, and neither does the particular terminology used by the school. fwiw, there is also the possibility that he is minimising what really went on in his account of the situation to you, and the victim could be doing likewise for all sorts of reasons. The way some boys interact is appalling, and needs to be addressed by schools and parents.

stripy I have prosecco, if you'd like a glass.

You have summed it up perfectly.

Tricky one.i think your DS should suck up the punishment: no, he didn't mean to do it, but he could have really hurt the other child through his silly behaviour. My DH dealt with an 'accident' where one guy punched another, the second guy fell backwards, hit his head on a concrete bollard and died instantly. It wasn't meant, but ended tragically.

Cherrysoup a deliberate punch is very different to kids playing though

Pulling someone back so hard that they fall and bash their head is not really 'kids playing' though is it? I doubt very much if the people referred to who threw punches intended to cause serious or fatal damage. What if the boy the op's son had pulled over had also died?

Stripystars well said. It's what I'm hearing from my friends that are teachers (and they're a mixed bunch, some primary some secondary, different parts of the country, different types of school, different demographics of pupils, varying lengths of service, very different personalities ALL saying the same - parents never think it's THEIR child in the wrong).

IMO your not been unreasonable. I do first aid in a school and this sort of thing happens on a daily basis. It clearly is not deliberate assault and just an accident and I'm sure your son feels bad enough.
I'm not sure if talking to the school would get the punishment downgraded and to be honest a day in isolation will ensure that the consequences of the event are solidified in DS mind but I can see your concern regarding it staying on his record. I hope you find some resolution.

Stonecircle it's not always a question of how hard, but can easily be just a question of catching the wrong balance point.

Mathanxiety - the other boys were chasing each other. It was the op's DS who behaved recklessly and caused a potentially serious injury.

OP one friend was pinching crisps and then the others would 'chase' him to get them back

My guess is they were all chasing and all grabbing. Otherwise, how would the crisps change hands? The DS was unlucky imo, that something he did resulted in an injury. The other boy was also unlucky, obviously. But the other boy had somehow managed to wrest the crisps from someone else. How did he do that? There had to be roughhousing by everyone involved in this game.

And it is utterly ridiculous that a school does not provide lockers.
Children can get scoliosis from carrying heavy bags around, and the potential for injury as a result of falls is increased when children are off balance when carrying bags on their backs. Plus it discourages children from getting meaningful exercise when they have to lug bags around or watch them to prevent damage or theft.

Could the school provide even a manned cloakroom for bags during lunchtime, and a few balls to kick around so students don't have to resort to games with bags of crisps or shoving and pushing each other to work off steam?

Including tackles during PE in the policy is laughable. I hope the parent group is successful in their efforts to rein in the new deputy head.

OP, if they are going to call this 'gross misconduct'/'assault', then call their bluff and tell then you want the police called. That language should not be on your DS's record unless he actually did something worth calling the police about.

YABU..... Yes it was an accident, but one brought on by your sons reckless behaviour. Punishment sounds fair to me. A good lesson for your son.

math

Yes there should be lockers. There are not.

That's irrelevant

Children play other games whether there are balls around or not. And some, like the OPs son, take it too far. Whether there was "roughousing" (hate that term, there's no place for roughhousing in school) or not, whether anyone else should have been punished, the OPs son took it too far and should take responsibility for his behaviour and the injury it caused.

I'd maybe take issue (in my head) with it being called assault but the school clearly is NOT using the term in a criminal sense, since if it were it could call the police.

But no way would I do anything to suggest he should not be punished, as the OP is suggesting

stripystars explained why.

Stripes my father taught for 40 years and this is something he really noticed change during that time. Parents were much more respecting of the school taking action against their child for bad behaviour in the 80s 90s. There was a "fair cop guv" attitude - most parents view was "what's the little sod done now".

Now if you discipline a child just wait for tiger mummy to come huffing in with a bucketload of excuses and justifications.

It's not irrelevant - the school by not providing lockers has created a playground environment that is more dangerous than it should be. It is unreasonably expecting young students to spend time outdoors and not to run around in order to avoid accidents and misadventures involving heavy backpacks.

A reasonable school would provide some sort of play equipment too, and not expect children to stand around conversing politely among themselves during lunchtime. What do they expect but roughhousing and backpack-related problems if they don't provide anything for the children to do and won't let them leave bags somewhere safe? Young teens have a lot of energy and it is unreasonable to expect them not to burn it off.

We do not know if the OP's DS took it too far. We do not know if he had had his own backpack pulled without incident earlier in the game or if they regularly played this game in the same way without incident. We do not know if any others involved had their own backpacks pulled. All we know is that one student sustained an injury, was immediately helped to get first aid by the student who caused it, and that everyone in their group was participating and having fun up to the time of the injury.

If they are going to call it 'assault' and if that word is to be on his record then a concerned parent should absolutely correct it if she can. 'Gross misconduct' too. It is not at all clear that the school is not using the terms in a criminal sense. They are terms used to describe appalling acts and appalling intentions and are rightly used to name crimes. So I think calling them on that is necessary, because there is no way these are accurate labels for what the DS did, or for his intentions, and the DS was one of many engaged in the game and any of the others could easily have found himself in this position.

I would bet my bottom dollar that not every child in that school is privileged enough to be able to shrug off a label like 'assault' or 'gross misconduct'. The school should only use labels like that when it finds itself looking at a situation where police should be involved.

but the tendency of parents to support their child at all costs and refuse to believe they could have done wrong has definitely worsened in the 12 years I have been teaching. It makes our job so much harder as many pupils know their parents will support them no matter what
I was wondering why it could have got worse in the last 12 years and all i could think of was social media. Maybe people post about their child getting into trouble and other parents tell them not to accept it and to go into the school and demand to see the behaviour policy/try and get the punishment downgraded hun etc. It's worrying when there is already a teacher shortage that more and more teachers are going to get fed up of having their job made a nightmare by some parents. This has made me think I'm going to tell dd about what happened to op's son as a warning of what "horseplay" can result in. I'm determined that I'd support the school and not be a tiger mummy who'd "come huffing in with a bucketload of excuses and justifications" that pp mentioned.

I hope the parent group is successful in their efforts to rein in the new deputy head.

There it is, right there, the reason why teachers are leaving the profession in droves and behaviour is so poor in schools. You know nothing about this school and have heard one side of an anecdote from an aggrieved parent and you feel qualified to make a sweeping statement like that.

If a new deputy is making stringent changes like those described, it will be because there is an issue and part of his remit will be to tackle it. There may well be a hard core of (probably) boys behaving inappropriately when tackling in PE, but yes, go ahead, say it's ridiculous if you like. This deputy is highly unlikely to be some power-mad loon hell-bent on tormenting the innocent young darlings of the school just for shits and giggles.

But yes, lets hope all the parents make his or her job impossible and behaviour can continue to decline. Any issues are 'the school's fault', but god forbid they try and do something about it.

I think this sums it up from another poster We know 13 year olds can be silly & make poor choices but we also need to manage the many hundreds of students & ensure that they're safe. Actions have consequences and this will make him & his friends think twice about messing around in the future.

mathanxiety
It's not irrelevant - the school by not providing lockers has created a playground environment that is more dangerous than it should be.

We provide lockers, the overwhelming majority of pupils choose not to use them. As for the school creating a "more dangerous", it must be a miracle that anyone survived schools before lockers where ever put in place.

At DS1s school there was a craze of friends grabbing other friends and then taking their shoes and throwing them around. All good jolly roughousing fun, the sort of thing children have got up to for decades. Unless you are the one at the receiving end and inadvertently get hurt, or you find it humiliating and are unable to speak up about it for fear of ratting on your mates.

All students at the school wear shoes, and yet most of them manage not to behave like dickheads and take each other's shoes.

Another example:

Primary school provides skipping ropes for skipping. Children are told they are for skipping only. Told categorically not to tie them round other children, particularly necks.

Child ties rope round neck of his friend, (who is very happy to enjoy that game until the rope hurts his neck). Child loses playtime

Stupid school for providing skipping ropes

But yes, lets hope all the parents make his or her job impossible and behaviour can continue to decline. Any issues are 'the school's fault', but god forbid they try and do something about it.

Oh fgs Stripes surely you can see that you need to discipline the naughty kids. Aka everyone else's..... Ah hang on a minute they are all someones little snowflake. Good luck with that (and to the new deputy head at this school).

Personally I see red over school tolerating bad behaviour not my own child being punished, no kid is perfect and you can't have it both ways can you....?

Good luck for the next 12 years

And the outcome of parents complaining about behaviour policies?

Schools (particularly Academies) having "no touching" rules, because parents and children can't seem to understand shades of grey and have difficulty trusting the school to discipline effectively given knowledge of the whole situation

And Primary schools banning skipping ropes