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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think this is an inappropriately harsh punishment?

301 replies

whoseafraidofnaomiwolf · 26/11/2016 07:48

I'm not sure whether I'm being a bit PLB about this situation (I suspect I might be) so am coming to the wider community of wise women for advice.

Background: PLB DS3(13) is generally a good child, well mannered, bright, funny, kind, and conscientious with his school work. He's popular with the other kids and teachers alike. Not a stealth boast (though I know it sounds that way) he's just one of those children. Yesterday at school he and his friends were mucking about at lunch time - one friend was pinching crisps and then the others would 'chase' him to get them back - all very good natured (I'm told) and within the realm of normal boyish horseplay. In this theme, one friend went to 'run away' and DS grabbed at him to stop him. He grabbed the strap of his backpack. Friend was halted in his tracks, staggered back then fell back and hit the back of head on a wooden bench causing a cut and a nasty bump. DS was horrified, apologised immediately and took friend to school first aid where he was cared for and his parents were called to take him home. DS was asked to write a report on his part in the incident.

Later yesterday afternoon my DH got a phonemail from school and I received an email to say that there had been an incident and that the school was giving DS a 'gross misconduct' for assault of another pupil. This is the most severe form of punishment the school gives before exclusion, it will stay on his school record until he leaves, and involves spending a day in isolation.

We have spoken to DS about this incident in stern terms. We've discussed actions and consequences and DS has messaged his friend to apologise and ensure that he is well (friend went home after incident). Friend is well and messaged back that he hoped DS hadn't got into trouble as it wasn't his fault. I've messaged friends Mum to acknowledge incident and express apologies & assurances that DS has been spoken to.

DS has never been in any sort of trouble before, not even a detention. I've warned him that he may just have to suck-up the punishment, but inside I am cross at how the school has handled this and escalated boisterous behaviour into something verging on criminal. AIBU to think that this is too extreme, and that it would be more appropriate for the school to be issuing him a warning - which the school behaviour policy says should come in the form of a 'yellow card' or 'red card'?

DS's isolation is due to happen on Monday, AIABU to go with him to school early on Monday with the aim of discussing this with year head to try and get punishment downgraded before he does 'time' for it? If IANBU then how would you approach defending your DC in this situation?

The fact that this has happened on a Friday and they propose punishment on the following Monday doesn't help as there's no-one available over the weekend to speak to.

OP posts:
myfavouritecolourispurple · 26/11/2016 17:08

My son has done worse than that, ended up being temporarily excluded for a day for it. Yes it remains on his record but if he does not do anything else (which he hasn't since Y7, he's in Y9 now) it will never be referred to again.

I would not worry about this, it will not end up on a college or uni application. As others have said, head injuries can be very serious indeed.

I think calling It "gross misconduct" is a bit silly for a silly accident, but please believe me when I say it really does not matter and it will be forgotten.

myfavouritecolourispurple · 26/11/2016 17:11

friends rarely speak against each other unless something extreme happens

this is rubbish by the way - schools are run like East Germany these days, everyone telling tales on everyone else.

hettie · 26/11/2016 17:13

Doesn't matter if the consequences were not planned... If you do something that has the potential to cause someone an injury (like pulling them backwards) you've made a really bad choice. You don't have to have malice to injury or kill someone. The truck driver who was on his phone who killed that family? He was done for manslaughter. He didn't intend it, there was no malice but his stupidity still caused their death. Better your son learns that stupid actions can have unintended consequences now rather than in a much more serious context....

Graphista · 26/11/2016 17:15

Myfavourite my experience and my daughters is the opposite. I've also had my teacher friends say similar, that 'not ratting out' is an issue.

userformallyknownasuser1475360 · 26/11/2016 17:21

I wpuld speak to parents of the other boy involved and ask them to forward a quick email etc saying they are happy that this was play that went wrong,

I would take a print of the message from the other boy it wasn't DSs fault

however I would send DS into school thinking that he was ghoing to spend the day in isolation, I wouldn't let DS or anyone else other than the school know what I was doing.

I would then privately fight the DSs corner and advise the school that as far as you are concerned there has been no assault (it doesn't meet the criminal def of assault) and request that they reconsider their stance as regards the incident, if they refuse to I would then ask them to show the school policy that dictates that this behaviour was unacceptable and ask them to treat all children involved in this hoprseplay in the same manner - but being specific that it is not to be brought to the fore that you have requested that they do so, as it will impact on DS

I think taht given the choice they will back down,

youarenotkiddingme · 26/11/2016 17:31

My ds friend sneaked up behind him outside school the other week and made him jump - ds dropped his phone that smashed.

It has never occurred to me to consider it anything other than kids being dicks. His friend felt bad. He hasn't done it since. Lesson learnt - life goes on.

I only asked if it was an academy because ime of the ones near me they have very strange ways of punishment and very strange ideas on what they deal with and what they ignore!

noblegiraffe · 26/11/2016 17:36

Making someone jump is again different to grabbing someone's backpack and pulling them over.

noblegiraffe · 26/11/2016 17:38

it wasn't DSs fault

But it was! He deliberately grabbed the kid and pulled him. He didn't mean for the kid to be injured but it is absolutely his fault that it happened.

DotForShort · 26/11/2016 17:39

I do think that the current climate in some schools can be quite toxic, with constant punishments for minor offenses, as well as unrealistic expectations of behaviour. I am trying to imagine what would happen if a similar incident occurred at the university where I teach. And yes, uni students absolutely do engage in horseplay similar to that described in the OP, although they are ostensibly adults.

MrsTerryPratchett · 26/11/2016 17:42

schools are run like East Germany these days, everyone telling tales on everyone else. You're so right. My Ukrainian friend, whose child goes to the same school as my DD, says the same! And she grew up with the real deal.

NotYoda · 26/11/2016 17:43

YABU

The other boy's injury was a direct result of your son's behaviour. I can well imagine one of mine doing something similar (despite them being good kids), but I'd support a day's isolation as punishment

NotYoda · 26/11/2016 17:44

I think noblegiraffe makes good points

noblegiraffe · 26/11/2016 17:47

unrealistic expectations of behaviour.

What? Expecting 13 year olds not to wrestle others to the ground on school premises is unrealistic? Confused

What if this happened in your own kitchen? Wouldn't you be mortified trying to explain to the other parent exactly how their child had come to need medical attention while in your care? Wouldn't you try to stop this sort of stupid behaviour instead of indulging it?

BoneyBackJefferson · 26/11/2016 17:56

telling tales

I hate this term, it is up there with "banter", Horseplay", "rough housing" and "boys will be boys"

How the fuck do we expect children to come to adults about them being bullied, abused or having poor home lives when you use terms like " don't tell tales "

It is a phrase that has no place in education.

marcopront · 26/11/2016 18:02

I am a little confused how the incident happened. If your son pulled at the friend's bag, how did he fall onto the bench, wasn't your son behind him?

If your son was a bully and had done this on purpose wouldn't he be telling the other boy to say that it was all in fun and to tell the school it was an accident. The school has to treat such incidents seriously.

amammabear · 26/11/2016 18:04

Whoseafraid "I would hope that any policy worth its salt would be flexible enough to be able to differentiate between accidental hurt without malice of intention (such as accidentally shutting someone's fingers in a door, or accidentally pulling a friend over during a game) and an intentional assault."

Exactly!

noblegiraffe · 26/11/2016 18:08

An intentional assault would (hopefully) get a fixed term exclusion with the option of the parents involving the police. That's how you would differentiate here.

NotYoda · 26/11/2016 18:10

Whosefraid

We do not know that an intentional assault would not have resulted in a more severe punishment. I think it probably would have. At my DSs' school probably a week of internal isolation.

NotYoda · 26/11/2016 18:16

OP

What i get from your posts (the OP in particular), is that despite your concern for the other boy, what is really upsetting you is that your boy (who has never been in trouble before) is in trouble. That's hard. It's embarrassing. But it's not the end of the world. Think yourself lucky this is the first time. He did something wrong.

If you don't suck up the feelings it generates in you, then you risk him not learning the lesson himself because all he sees is obfuscation and excuses.

NotYoda · 26/11/2016 18:17

... and actually, you don't mention him resenting this punishment at all. Just you.

stonecircle · 26/11/2016 18:33

NotYoda - good point. It would be nice to see more hand-wringing from the op about the potential for her DS to have caused serious or fatal injury.

TotallyOuting · 26/11/2016 18:42

Is there not a chance that the version given by the injured boy at the time at school (I'm assuming he also gave a version, like the OP's DS was asked to) is quite far from the version DS gave/is giving?
If I didn't know the boy extremely well (and perhaps even if I did - high school relationships can change in a day), I would not set much store by the boy/his parents saying everything was fine and just play in the context of the mother of the boy responsible directly requesting information. Perhaps the boy's semi-anonymous (for the period immediately following the incident) account is a bit more damning.

NotYoda · 26/11/2016 18:44

*Totall8

Maybe. But I think it's pretty appropriate even if all is exactly as it seems

Cucumber5 · 26/11/2016 18:56

Weather it was horseplay or not, it was far too rough and could have resulted in a fatality.

LuluJakey1 · 26/11/2016 19:19

He did something unthinkingly dangerous and someone was hurt as a consequence. The school won't think he is a thug but are rightly saying there should be a consequence for your son. I would support the school. The school's internal discipline procedures are up to the school- you can not tell them what to do.