Aibu to expect people to help themselves in their own lives?

[Lazymazy1]

Have wanted to be a social worker for many years, have a degree and was looking to do a MSc.
However, doing voluntary work with a family who are in a very chaotic position, who won't help themselves, ie getting pregnant again whilst effectively homeless. Not taking control of things which will make a big difference in their current situation.

It isn't a case of can't, but won't help themselves, perhaps ingrained.

Am I being unreasonable ? Or are there good reasons why people just won't help themselves?

I studied a residential intervention programme for families with "irresponsible behaviour", mostly involving drugs. The service users' feedback was very much an "us and them" response. They felt patronized and demonized rather than empowered and supported. This meant that they were reluctant to open up to SW's, who they felt were just being nosy and could not relate to their backgrounds.

Owllady I can totally relate to parenting course issue. My child needed specialist intervention for ASD related issues and instead I was sent on a course It was horribly patronizing, being talked to as if you are a child, very basics covered. One of the "techniques" was to sit on the floor with a partner (in my case a 6 foot 4 father) and "play" together to model how play should be done. Each group had to demonstrate to the others. We were both mortified. At the end I was asked if I would consider doing an essential skills course. I have postgrad qualifications but was told it was recommended

Lazy the support for children post-care is appalling.

I am not trying to excuse behaviour but there can be a blurred line between what constitutes responsible behaviour and what doesn't. In the UK the government define this and in theory have interventions which are supposed to help (Sure Start was one of these) but often don't, because the policy makers are completely oblivious to issues that many people face.

I'm not sure that a SW is allowed to talk about contraception etc? I assume this would fall under Health rather than Social care so probably down to a HV, which is a shame as most people don't have very regular contact with their HV in order to build up a good bond/sense of trust.

Lazy there is no evidence to suggest that Sure Start actually improves outcomes for children. There was a call for scientific studies to quantify findings however the government refused to let this go ahead.

It's me that keeps going on about surestart I just thought it was a really good way to support women with young children who may be vulnerable. A safe place, rather than going the whole hog and ss having to be involved.

Cringe at that course. I was told if I didn't attend I wouldn't even be considered for respite but I was in such a bad place I'd have slit my wrists if I'd have had to spend the day with parents of nt children (no offence to anyone, it's just our circumstances are unique and we were at breaking point) I went and cried at the GPs who apparently turned up at SS offices which I didn't find out until we were assigned a new SW.

Sorry I do realise I'm going off point

Owl the evidence suggests that it can be a lifeline for the parents, but that does not necessarily have direct correlation on improved outcomes for the children. The gov set these outcomes as academic ability at age 5 (compared with non Sure Start families), obesity, healthy eating, behaviour.

Where I am Sure Start is a postcode lottery. Large council housing estates have a Sure Start but you might be living a few meters outside the estate in a private rental and not be eligible. These may be the people in most need of support but are unable to access it.

I agree that "won't" is often a form of "can't".

As a middle-class, postgraduate educated woman in her 30s with a stable job and marriage, I'm still only just coming to terms with my childhood and how it messed me up and shaped my often erratic decisions and ongoing weird behaviour. And I have the "luxury" of time and health and energy, etc, to think about it.

The problem is that as a social worker you won't have time to dig deep and help everyone, even if you want to. You'll have too many people, not enough time, and you'll have to "triage" and work out what you can and can't accomplish, without judgement. Doctors and nurses face the same shit and it's not good but it's one of those things.

Not everyone can or will respond to you, even if you had endless time to devote to them, and even if the solutions seem so goddamned obvious and easy to you. There are a million ways they can be fucked up, and you could drive yourself mad trying to work out why they are the way they are.

For your own good, definitely have that conversation and think about your future. You're clearly passionate, so there might be much better ways you can help kids, like mental health charities and advocacy etc?

I think everyone would agree about promoting self esteem? But how to do that when "The problem is that as a social worker you won't have time to dig deep and help everyone, even if you want to. "

I often think it would help if the people who are building long meaningful relationships with a child (such as a one to one TA at the school) had more voice/authority (not always, but at appropriate moments).

Eyelevel something like that is supposed to be happening here in Scotland. With the named person scheme, but as is often the case with these schemes it's been designed/implemented with little consultation with the very people it's supposed to help and not much more with the professionals involved with children needing support.

Can we please resist this turning into a benefits/unemployment issue? Lots of families that have social worker contact are working and are even middle class and well educated (academically at least).

As klassy says a difficult family background/childhood isn't the preserve of the poor/working class.

And yes the provision for support for children leaving care is shockingly inadequate. One of my daughters friends at school is turning 16 soon, leaving the care system (both parents addicts) she's been provided with practical stuff (a flat, money, furniture etc) but the poor kid has little emotional support in place. She's already struggling with school so unlikely to achieve well exam wise and thus will not be in a position to do well after school - chances are she'll end up in a nmw dead end job if she's lucky (area of high unemployment). She's already developed an attraction to 'bad lads'. I've known her since she was 9 and it's heartbreaking.

If everyone was able to help themselves. Yes it would be an ideal world, but There'd also be no need for social workers

Unfortunately there will always be a place for sw, s knowing what help there is is half the battle?

Surest start centres near me , anyone can go, although they often say ( staff there), the people using the services often weren't the ones who really needed the help .

Yes klassy I maybe need to look at working with / for children in a different way. As I rould fight all the way for them.

My son has a one 2 one at school full time, but I feel the emphasis is on education rather than any social issues. As for them.being involved- I had to request they attend the school meetings about my son, his TA know him the best in my eyes.

These people are overwhelmed and stuck in negative life patterns.
Surely you should have the insight to see this if you are to help and support them?

Its about breaking the cycle, which sadly means some tough discussions and options for parents.

Maybe a strong SW is what is needed, someone who isn't easily influenced and manipulated by strong-willed clients.

"As for them.being involved- I had to request they attend the school meetings about my son, his TA know him the best in my eyes."

My opinion of you just shot up :)

😊

:) right back atcha

If everyone did that it would be good x

And have a potentially dangerous attitude to client confidentiality. I'd suggest you have this sort of discussion with your supervisor.

This simply isn't true, the OP hasn't said anything even vaguely identifying.

OP, I don't think that you are necessarily not suitable to be a social worker. You sounds like you know that it's wrong to 'judge' and that you are willing to look at the reasons why. I suspect that there are plenty of people who judge other but not let that effect how they do their work.

In fact I'd be far more suspicious of any social worker who claimed that they don't, on occasion, get frustrated with some of their clients.

Lazymazy1 you are wrong, I have no idea who you are or what you have posted before. I haven't looked at the posting history of anyone in this thread. I just assumed a lot of posters would have those sort of history, as mumsnet is full of relationship problems. Still, it seems my assumption was correct, as you have confirmed, and you have done exactly what I thought people would do: taking it personally, describe problems in their lives that they have not managed to solve even though for other people the solution may be obvious ("leave the bastard!") and justify your personal situation because, in your case, it is "different".

What makes you think that it is any easier for the families you worked with to solve their problems than it is for you in your own life?

Can't you really see the irony?

Lazymazy, I think you have idealised fighting for the children a bit. A lot of social work is hard because there are no winners. Would you be prepared to fight to have a child removed from a dangerous home environment despite the child being destroyed at being removed and calling you everything under the sun for being part of it? The pain you would be causing the child. And you wouldn't know if the damage of losing their parents was going to lead them into just as much danger afterwards. Do you realise that is a huge part of 'saving' these children? It is so complex and you need to be prepared to both let children go back to situations that you think are bad (because the court has decided that way) and break some children's hearts and souls by removing them from their families.

Social worker need to have a strong constitution. Maybe you already get the fact that there will be many cases where things happen that you would have to execute that you don't agree with or that break the child a little bit more.

YANBU.

OK, I've worked in advice and welfare rights for the past 10 years and before that had the sort of "chaotic" lifestyle that would qualify me to be your client. I'm going to give you as honest an answer as I can. There's several reasons why your clients don't seem to be helping themselves:

1.They might be making rational economic choices that aren't obvious to you.

In your first example, a woman had got pregnant despite being homeless. If she's in temporary accomodation, the rent is likely to be much higher than either normal council housing or private rentals. It's actually not a good idea to have a job and be trying to pay your own way- almost all your money would go on rent, leaving you nothing to try and get yourself out of the situation.
The best thing is to stay on benefits, let HB pick up the tab and sort your life out properly once your settled in a council place. A new baby doesn't interfere with that process at all and might actually lead to a more stable income by entitling you to Income Support and getting you away from the sanctions regime. Poverty has its own economics.

1. Stressed people make more mistakes.

If your going to drop and break your phone, you can bet it will happen when your waiting for a call about your crisis grant. Because you are stressed!

1. You might be the strategy.

They might have factored in the help you are able to provide and concluded that this is their best option for resolving the problem. Therefore they are not making the effort to resolve it by other means.

1. They wish to avoid situations where they will be made to feel shit about themselves.

Use the search function to find a thread about Health Visitors. See how much middle class parents hate being patronised and dictated to. Now use your powers of empathy to consider how working class people feel. Clue: They feel the same.

1. Something else is going on.

Pp's have talked about people who feel the need to fill their lives with drama to avoid thinking about something more deep seated. I think this is very true. I know plenty of people like that. Sometimes the presenting problem isn't the real problem.

These are just some of the possible explanations. I'm sure there are more. What they have in common is that they are normal human reactions, not confined to "vulnerable people".
If your struggling to understand someone's motivation the answer is almost never that they are part of some special underclass that can't be understood or helped.

* Kids who revel in their ignorance and try to stop others learning, fuck off. And they get it from their appalling parents*

What exactly do you mean by "appalling parents"?
I have two sons - elder one academic all round lovely boy the school loved him was well thought of by all the teachers. Younger son - bloody nightmare very bright but does NO work has been in endless trouble with the school for being disruptive,not doing any work etc. etc. l am not an appalling parent - I'm a present, loving, caring mother who has done everything she can to support her son's education. We have a nice home with nice friends and certain expectations - all the adults in his life have professional careers - his DGF (my DF) was a deputy head of a boy's grammar school and has also tried to mentor and guide him.

We are all at our wits end with him. Please don't assume all disruptive children have so-called 'appalling' parents.

Great post Unlimited. That really made me think.

Thanks Elfing
I had to sleep on it. I was a bit angry about this thread when I first saw it last night.

I have been a sw for baby years . Your last question astounds me.

Of course frustration can be experienced - by sw - we are after all humans .
But please look at research and studies - a sw course will of course also go into much detail as well as require students to relate theory to their actual practice in the real world , alongside assessments re the student . It is n my view rigorous training as you do assessed work placements .
Apologies but read thread .

Apologies not read thread!