Aibu to expect people to help themselves in their own lives?

[Lazymazy1]

Have wanted to be a social worker for many years, have a degree and was looking to do a MSc.
However, doing voluntary work with a family who are in a very chaotic position, who won't help themselves, ie getting pregnant again whilst effectively homeless. Not taking control of things which will make a big difference in their current situation.

It isn't a case of can't, but won't help themselves, perhaps ingrained.

Am I being unreasonable ? Or are there good reasons why people just won't help themselves?

Ive worked on the fringes of these families for years and I also wonder what it is that stops these families from helping themselves, despite the money and organisations available. Its like some have a self destruct button.

Thanks Helena
Thing is how do people get money when just getting JSA is difficult. We have sanctions and workfare so how do people get benefit's when these things are in place. Also the cap is £20,000 per family outside of London? There's an Mner on here living on £70 per week and I really dont know how she manages

I had a spell of getting JSA in summer.
It cost me £11.70 in train fare.
They wanted me there weekly.
I had a claimant commitment that meant I had to spend many hours per day looking for a job.
I had to attend interviews that were not suitable as part of that, that cost me similar amounts money to get there.
I was worse off claiming JSA and it was very stressful.
There is no way, with the welfare reform act, that you can sit back and claim JSA.
It was nothing short of punitive, and an awful experience.

A lot of these posts are written on the back of a world misunderstanding.

People have died under sanctions whilst claiming JSA.

www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/03/victims-britains-harsh-welfare-sanctions

Rest in peace David Clapson

aure
I now understand what you meant from your pp.
Yes I posted that my husband was in my mind, EA , that he left and he came back, he thought about what he was doing, tried to change. He still has not reverted back to the old self.
But, why refer to previous threads?
I never made out my life wasn't chaotic, that I didn't need help with things. But, the point is I wasn't on self destruct . I went to cab, council offices , estate agents etc to gain info, to take responsibility to make a change if necessary.
You sound a bit judgemental actually of the women/ men who stay.

The approach isn't working now is it.

The pp stating some, not all, are very aware of their rights but not their responsibilities.

In my mind that has hit the nail on the head. Making excuses for people not to do things perpetuates things. Yes there are reasons , but making excuses relieves people of their responsibility to get on and do things to help. If parents can't do the simplest things for their kids, what hope is there for the big things? Do kids deserve that?

A new approach is needed I feel.

Why is a parenting course a magical solution anyway?
It's suggested alot to parent carers too instead of respite is it because it's the cheapest solution and seen as an intervention (ie ticking a box?) ?

I know of a school mum that has 6 children under 7, all from different fathers (none of which have stuck around or have any contact) The kids often miss school because if one is sick she can't leave them at home alone to bring the others. She often phones another school mum (who has health issues) to go and help her, collect children etc. Her children have all the best stuff, gadgets, designer clothes etc. I must admit (and I am now ashamed) that I was a bit when I saw she was pregnant with #6, as she often complains how hard work they are and 2 of them have significant behavioural issues. It transpires that she had a terrible background (her father strangled her mother when she was a baby and then he was killed whilst in prison) and was brought up in the care system. At 16 she was basically on her own with no support, so turned to men, most of whom have been violent. She really hasn't had a consistent example of "responsible" behaviour. I feel very sorry for her and I fear that her children will learn from her negative behaviours. Sadly it seems to be a vicious circle.

In societies where there is no 'system' there are still families and individuals that are dysfunctional.

A wealthy society who can look after them in some ways, should.
The kids deserve that.

Yes there are reasons why she has many children, but when do you stop, the lady could have 20 children , but nobody is going to question it because she has had a awful past ?

Is it her right over the child's to keep having as many children as she likes, regardless of whether she is coping or not?

OP, I fear you are saying things others dare not say.

Yes it is!
What do you suggest?
Forcibly sterilise?

20 children and not coping/state intervention.
Magical thinking.
I'll be very surprised if a single example exists.

I agree, it would probably be very wise for her not to have any more children but the point is that she doesn't see her behaviour as irresponsible. That is the key issue. No one can force her to be sterilized or use contraception. I don;t think she even wants to have children, she seems to have ONS's or very brief relationships with men who are equally irresponsible and falls pregnant. I was surprised to hear that apart from financial support from WA and Sure Start she doesn't actually get any practical support, which is probably what might have the most impact on her.

But part of your role would be helping her address contraception surely? I did that as a health visitor for some women. Ask her what she wants to be doing in five years time, What did she want to do as a child....I can bet you as a child her ambition was not to have loads of kids and struggle. So what DID she want to do? Is it doable? Can she be helped to develop some skills etc.

All practical things you can do right now for her and which will ultimately benefit her children.

Of course if she is ground down by depression and life then you may have to address all of that first.

I believe education is the key, having positive role models etc, but reading about someone in a book or a speaker visiting your school is likely to have very little impact. I remember watching Benefit Street (which may have been edited) but one of the mothers was saying that she really wanted her child to get a good education, have a good job etc but she certainly was not showing a good example herself. Actions speak louder than words.

Yes there are reasons why she has many children, but when do you stop, the lady could have 20 children , but nobody is going to question it because she has had a awful past ?

I think we should question it, but telling her she is doing a crap job will most likely be counter productive. Using her as an example though, one very positive grass roots action could be to improve services/facilities for children leaving care. 16/18 year olds from the best of homes still need support and guidance, so generally speaking the outcome for someone who hasn't had consistent parenting throughout their childhood is going to be a lot worse.

It does sound like she needs practical support but I bet she's just been offered a parenting course and I want to know how successful they are and what they achieve? The focus is on the woman too. Where are all the Dads?

I think it's a bit of a shame that the surestart service has been cut so much. I think it was a backwards step.

I was signed up for a parenting course (have I said this? I'm a bit tired) and I didn't go. I told them I wasn't going though. I needed respite, there was nothing wrong with my parenting. My daughter's behaviour since we have been receiving respite has improved a hundred fold. I really think without intervention shed have ended up in residential care. I had the noddy of all social workers who thought I was embarrassed of her and I needed to take her out more and go on a parenting course. He was such a nob. We had to go through the whole complaints procedure to get rid of him as well. We have a fantastic social worker now though who is very client (my dd) driven.

Yes promoting responsibility and self esteem/ confidence and listening when people come out if care - does that happen?

What I see though if you brush things like this under carpet with excuses is that it is never addressed. Anyway I'm repeating myself.

But part of your role would be helping her address contraception surely?

Why would it be my role? She is a school mum that I am not even very friendly with, should I turn up at the school gates with condoms and pass them out to people that I feel have too many children? As a HV that would be your job. I will hasten to add that her children are fed, clothed and loved. What they are lacking though is stability and positive role models in terms of healthy relationships.

I went on a parenting course I think it touches on the basic things and is useful but it's the person themseles which need help as above self esteem etc
Glad you got some respite owl I have a child with additional needs and I know just how difficult even that can be

I don't think she meant you Fran :o I think she meant a sw!

I do think there is too much enabling going on. Quite how people think they are going to manage with a child when they can't afford to feed/look after themselves, I don't know...oh wait, yes I do, a kindly stranger will bail me out (good old tax payer).

Do you think that would be achieved via a surestart centre though rather than through social services intervention?

Our local one used to do healthy eating, cooking, music classes, signing, all sorts of really positive things, every single day. It closed

fran think the pp was saying role of a sw to help her with contraception and things .

We always divide in two on these thread. I suspect we can all agree that a bit more active help for these people is a good idea and the usual carrots and sticks. We always need a mixture.

Things will get better however as more and more jobs are becoming available at present. Things have really turned around on the jobs front.

"UK Unemployment Rate Falls to 11-Year Low. UK jobless rate declined to 4.8 percent in the three months to September 2016 from 4.9 percent in the April to June period and 5.3 percent a year earlier"