Aibu to expect people to help themselves in their own lives?

[Lazymazy1]

Have wanted to be a social worker for many years, have a degree and was looking to do a MSc.
However, doing voluntary work with a family who are in a very chaotic position, who won't help themselves, ie getting pregnant again whilst effectively homeless. Not taking control of things which will make a big difference in their current situation.

It isn't a case of can't, but won't help themselves, perhaps ingrained.

Am I being unreasonable ? Or are there good reasons why people just won't help themselves?

I don't know if there's something similar in the UK but this sort of idea might be more up your street OP?
www.childadvocates.org/volunteer

This thread brings some timely reading for me, as I grapple with whether to continue something in a similar field that I am at a bit of a crossroads with. Thanks for starting it, and the questions you ask, and why you ask them are hopefully giving you a lot to reflect on. I would also suggest you look into a counselling course.

YANBU. Social work is more about managing chaos than really putting individuals and families on the 'right' track. There are instances of people who you wouldn't let look after a house plant, whose DC are in a revolving door of care, 'cause being with your parents is best'. There are instances of being told not to discuss contraception with young women because its discriminatory against their choices despite having an unwanted baby already.....it goes on and on.

Sometimes its the wishy-washy system, sometimes its the parents who just don't know and never will. Treat it like a chance to dodge a bullet OP.

I hope it has made interesting reading mee and I wish you well in your decision making.

aury I don't quite know what to say apart from making assumptions and judging someone you do not know personally is how your post comes across ( again, sorry if I'm reading it wrong. I'm perfectly happy ( apart from career wise) but we go off topic.

Thank you for the career suggestions 😊 and those further replies

My cousin has been a SW for a long time, at the moment he's a hospital SW and is happy doing it, he was a family SW for 6yrs and it nearly broke him.
He said between the limits of what he could do and the fact that some clients just wouldn't help themselves. at one stage he was doing a morning house routine for a family, he would arrive at the house at 7.30am get the kids up, dressed and fed and do the school drop off. It was to assist a vunerable home situation. But as time went on the parent just stopped doing any of the routine as they knew he was coming, a few times they even just stayed in bed.
He said for every 2 clients who were desparate for help/guidance and wanted their lives to get better there were 3 who just accepted whatever was going and didn't want to help make things better.
The straw that broke the camels back for him was one family who'd been in the system for over a decade yet whatever help was put in place for them fell apart as soon as the SW backed off a bit. They were evicted from every house they had as they never seemed to grasp paying rent/bills and keeping the home tidy. When the 15yr old got pregnant and the parents response was "aw sure she's grand" he said he just knew that the cycle would just repeat itself with no change. So he got out.
His opinion at the end was his role was to make sure it didn't go completely up the creek and that was the best that could be gotten in some situations.

My sw has dropped my children off for me at school too, on rare occasions. I'm always really grateful!

unlimited this is a good example of what your post is about.

www.echo-news.co.uk/news/14909276.Homeless_mum____39_My_sons_walk_the_streets_for_hours_waiting_for_me_to_finish_work__39_/?commentSort=score

Ok. Say you see an alcoholic mum. Do you just think of the child?

Or
Do you see that she is stressed to the hilt, providing clean bedding and clothing and healthy food.

Do you see that she sings and reads to her baby at night?

Do you know how many times a day she judges herself?

Do you know that she was beaten daily as a child?

Do you know that she can't attend counselling as she works?

Do you know that she cries herself to sleep?

Do you know that your intervention and judgment are increasing her anxiety?

Do you know that she looks at normal children getting muddy and wistfully wishes she could let her own child play freely?

Do you know that she needs anxiety meds for a week before your visits?

Do you know that she was sober for six months and relapsed an hour after you left?

Do you know that you ruined two lives?

I think people under estimate how hard it is to change habits that people grow up with

If they are raised in a certain way, it's hard to over come that.

Then when you have someone telling you to change by going to a parenting course, it's like a slap in the face. Your trying your hardest, which isn't enough sometimes. But your trying

That's without things like mental health conditions and drugs.

A family friend has just had her children taken off her because of drugs. She has managed to slip under the radar for years but her latest new born triggered social services to act.

She's gutted. She loves her kids. But the drugs call her too hard.

And most crucially do you see that the baby was loved and adored her mum. Do you see what you have done?

Op your honesty, lack of defensiveness and open mindedness is refreshing.

I have nothing to do with Sw and have found the debate interesting.

myoriginal3 Wed 23-Nov-16 16:40:46
Ok. Say you see an alcoholic mum. Do you just think of the child?

Hopefully if it is a CHILD protection social worker they do focus on the child.

Or
Do you see that she is stressed to the hilt, providing clean bedding and clothing and healthy food.

These are positives and should be seen as such

Do you see that she sings and reads to her baby at night?

This is positive and would be viewed that way

Do you know how many times a day she judges herself?

This is irrelevant

Do you know that she was beaten daily as a child?

This is sad but should not be the focus of the SW

Do you know that she can't attend counselling as she works?

This is unfortunate as it probably impacts her ability to tackle the issues she has

Do you know that she cries herself to sleep?

This is irrelevant

Do you know that your intervention and judgment are increasing her anxiety?

This also shouldn't be a priority for the child protection SW

Do you know that she looks at normal children getting muddy and wistfully wishes she could let her own child play freely?

This is irrelevant

Do you know that she needs anxiety meds for a week before your visits?

Again this is unfortunate but the Child should come first

Do you know that she was sober for six months and relapsed an hour after you left?

Sober for 6 months is not good enough for the child

Do you know that you ruined two lives?

The SW is not responsible for the outcomes of the parents choices

And most crucially do you see that the baby was loved and adored her mum. Do you see what you have done?

Unfortunately loving and adoring a child is no substitute for being an adequate parent.

What is most telling about my original3's post is it is all about the parent and their needs and their issues. This is fairly typical of CP cases I come across and in the worst examples the SW get sucked in and all the focus is the parent and the child at the centre gets lost. The situation myoriginal3 portrays is an adult who is not managing and needs support to get themselves together, unfortunately a baby does not have time to miss out on crucial development whilst the parent works through their issues. In fact by removing a baby the baby stand a better chance of a successful outcome. Unfortunately the current strategy seems to be leave the child there for 3 or 4 years until things have deteriorated further and the child has significant issues and then remove the child. Unsurprisingly these children are less likely to succeed in the care system.

Totally agree with everything you just said user1471

While I agree the child is the priority I don't think those elements are 'irrelevant' because big picture view it will and does affect the child.

How is 'sober for 6 months' not good enough?

Well sober for 6 months means that either during early childhood or pregnancy the mother was heavily using drugs or alcohol, that's not good enough for a child IMO. Also 6 months sobriety if you've had addictions for years and years is still very early days and therefore not a stable situation for a child.

In seeking to be so understanding I think we sometimes lower the bar of what is acceptable far too far.

Graphista - would you leave your children in the care of an alcoholic or drug addict?

Great post User, I fully agree with you.

It's outrageous that a parent cannot be held in any way responsible for any of their choices (and I do understand that many of them will not be 'true' choices for people who are in a vicious circle), yet apparently a social worker trying to make the best available decision for a child, who themselves will be under significant (though different) constraints, can be blamed to the hilt, and told they have 'ruined two lives'. Complete hypocrisy. Well said User.

user I don't always agree with you but spot on post there. Time and again serious case reviews shows up that SW, teachers, police, HCP have focused on the parent and not been the advocate for the child.

Daniel Pelka, jasmine Beckford, baby P, Victoria Climbie the list is endless.

I remember as a trainee nurse going out on the district with a HV. A mum was having all her kids put into care as her paedophile boyfriend was leaving prison and she refused to stop him entering the house. She said she 'would miss the 12 year old as she was good'

As a young girl I was shocked but now as a mother I coukd seriously feel nothing but contempt and hatred.

Millions of people have fucking awful childhoods and manage to parent well.

I think the point you made user is exactly the type of point I was trying to make but you have been very articulate in making it 😊

The alcoholic mum situ is sad to say the least ( not trying to be patronising ) , but it's all about the mum and not the child. I don't want to say too much more on this case incase it strikes a cord with others. Please seek help, get help, take responsibility and do it for both you and child.

I remember when the Baby P case came out and everyone blamed the SWs and doctors...

The mother herself only served 18 months or something silly, and hardly anyone mentioned the dad!

I remember as a trainee nurse going out on the district with a HV. A mum was having all her kids put into care as her paedophile boyfriend was leaving prison and she refused to stop him entering the house. She said she 'would miss the 12 year old as she was good

I had a very similar experience as a trainee nurse twenty years ago, a peadophile boyfriend was always there when we dropped in. Nothing was done though.

In those days, I called the police for very serious incidences and they acted straight away. There probably did need to be more 'procedures' to go through but in SE London then it was the best solution.

Yes the police have or used to have more powers than social workers to immediately move a child.

Two yes every time blame game and the actual bastard who committed the crime is somehow not blamed.

SS should be looking past the parents and focusing on the child. that's their job.

Trouble is being a 'looked after' child is pretty shit too isn't it?

How long would an addict need to be sober for to be 'good enough' to look after their own child?

I'm not an addict myself but one side of my family has several. Whether I'd leave my child with them would be based not only on length of sobriety but also their actual personality/abilities.

This is such a fascinating and instructive thread, I would nominate it for a classic.

Lazymazy, as your main interest lies with children, could you maybe focus your studies on working with disturbed children?

As for social workers, in my experience there is often a cultural divide across the classes that is a barrier to understanding and communication. I lived in a very deprived part of Dublin and really found the cultural differences with my neighbours much bigger than I have ever had with my Mexican neighbours, who are also poor.