Aibu to expect people to help themselves in their own lives?

[Lazymazy1]

Have wanted to be a social worker for many years, have a degree and was looking to do a MSc.
However, doing voluntary work with a family who are in a very chaotic position, who won't help themselves, ie getting pregnant again whilst effectively homeless. Not taking control of things which will make a big difference in their current situation.

It isn't a case of can't, but won't help themselves, perhaps ingrained.

Am I being unreasonable ? Or are there good reasons why people just won't help themselves?

I've found this a really interesting thread. I'll admit, OP, that I initially thought you were a bit judgey but you seem keen to explore ideas and opinions and that's great. I have been on the other side of SS and whenever I see a thread regarding their involvement, I will always give the same advice - cooperate, engage, show willing. There are websites denigrating individual social workers - all they do is encourage antagonism without any encouragement to find away forward. The Family Rights group is a far better and more useful tool if anyone here is struggling with SS intervention.

I love that Carey Mullion line in Steve Mc Queens film Shame

Said to her equally fucked up of a on screen brother (Michael Fassbender )

We're not bad people, we just come from a bad place

I suppose good social workers are that rare breed compassion with detachment, empathy with realism.. And a huge amount of self reflection.

Good luck in whatever you choose Op

detachment, empathy with realism. And a huge amount of self relection

Fab post, crone. I think social work is not so much a career as a vocation.

" They do care when the people who should care don't. "

Yea you need to address that thinking before you even think about going into a job like this.

Even parents who abuse have been shown to love their children, and more importantly their children love them. That's why social workers can't have a knee jerk response to a families situation. It serves nobody.

eyelevel I hope things improved quickly for you.

The idea that the solution is to sweep in as a previous poster said, like some kind of caped crusader and 'fix' everything is unrealistic and potentially more damaging than doing nothing.

It did thanks Graphista.which is another point- crises come and go, and most of the time we were more "dysfunctional" than "chaotic"

My mum needed to be shown that she lacked self esteem which wasn't her fault but meant she was looking for answers in all the wrong places. My dad needed an ASD diagnosis. Of course they thought about the bloody children, it was what they did all the time.

The thought of a parenting class being suggested to my parents by a social worker makes me afraid even now. And just to imagine the social worker coming back to say they hadn't gone. Yes I would say that could genuinely have made things worse :(

The single most important determinant of success in life is money.
On the whole, if your family are wealthy, if you have money, you'll be ok.

People needing interventions from SS may have clusters of entrenched issues such as addictions, MH, housing problems, worklessness/low pay, DV, disabilities, problems with transport, less likely to get a referral to specialist etc etc and on top of this, are bashed in the press and judged left right and centre.

Poor people also have shorter lives and worse health outcomes. The system is stacked against us.

I recommend Reading The Marmot Review.

www.instituteofhealthequity.org/projects/fair-society-healthy-lives-the-marmot-review/fair-society-healthy-lives-executive-summary.pdf

The point was that it's mild action to take, not a parenting course, which would have had huge positive outcome. I'm really not as stupid as you make me out to be.
And no , I don't think a social worker could judge or think as I do because the job would be just too painful.

Btw a Psychology degree isn't as it's perceived to be either.

Yes Graphista.
The best place for the child is within the family, and the underpinning principle of the children act.

Not always, but mostly.
And this is recognised in law.

You're barking up the wrong tree going into social work. If that's your thoughts. You're not there to condemn or condone.

Can you correct the first sentence- it has got mangled....

You are clearly not stupid because you are questioning yourself

Ah, I get you: going on a parenting course is a small thing to do.....

Yeah, it must seem that way from the outside.

You have to look at each individual as just that, an individual.

Can't or won't help themselves does'nt really matter, the point is in your mind they do'nt help themselves, find out why they don't.

Have they had awful childhoods with neglectful parents?

Are they just rebellious, don't like authority figures?

Are they in an abusive relationship?

ASD?

It could be any number of reasons, I guess you have to stop thinking of them as case studies and start thinking of them as people, and with a little more compassion.

Get to the root of the problem, then maybe you could undestand why people behave the way they do, but do social workers really have that much time to dedicate to such cases? I doubt very much they do.

To go back to the OP yes there are lots of reasons why people don't help themselves.
I presume that is what you would learn about as a trainee sw?

I would suggest listening might be a good starting point for a SW. I have encountered many SWs in Adult care. Haven't met one that can listen.

eye
Sorry I meant, it was a small thing such as a phonecall which would have big implications ( which wasn't carried out) . I would understand if it was a parenting course, that takes more energy, organising and all things mentioned previously.

That one point (.the phone call) just opened my eyes and made me think .
Then talking to various people who just make excuses not to do, in my eyes small things, which could make a world of difference. Then they complain about the situation.
But actually, it's sad as I really thought I could really help to enable others and this was the career for me.
Once again, thank you all for taking the time to reply. I have learnt some bits through the thread 😊

I'm a very good listener thanks 51

And so modest too.

Lazymazy1, those people you judge about their chaotic life and ridiculous decisions may very well be judging you for other reasons. All of us are great in seeing the defects in others' lives but being blind (or justifying) the ones in ours.

Look at this thread. 90% of the women saying that those families have chaotic lives and that they have no idea how they can keep making decisions that sink them deeper have posted here before about having partners who disrespect them, control them or abuse them, or cheat on them... and very few ever leave them. The ones who leave them often come back to them. Some women keep getting attached to the wrong kind of men all the time. Some keep getting to the end of the month skint. But I am sure that the ones who feel identified by what I am saying will feel offended "because their case is different", they have true reasons for being in the situation in which they are and it is not their fault.

Exactly the same as the families social workers work with.

Yabu and possibly have a tory like mindset of blaming the poor for their predicament. Choices aren't made in a vacuum. Structural issues also contribute to the limited also mount of free choice we actually have. Not everyone is born with equal chance. There are also many illnesses that make organisation etc difficult. Also some people simply have different priorities that a decided set of current societal ideals

I certainly didn't call you stupid!

You're clearly intelligent, doesn't mean you have the right skill set or personality for this role.

It may be 'just' a phone call to you but then you yourself said 'would have big implications' THATS where fear, insecurity and avoidance kick in, they are thinking, they are considering the effects on their family and not necessarily seeing it as a positive.

Have you never been anxious about a phone call? About a job or medical results? That's still 'just' a phone call but with big implications for the person making it.

Jess what youve achieved is amazing I know ive said it before but it warrants saying again.

Portia Congrats to your DD on her uni place Great news

"In saying that I'm currently in a whole new field however dealing with similar types of mentality, some people just don't want to put the effort into anything and want everything done for them with no input or effort from themselves"

Jamie You work in housing now dont you. What do you mean by that statement. Could you give some examples.

I'm not sure what judging and condemning would add to these types of situation? Defensiveness, entrenchment and alienation yes, but not positive behavior change. I'm sure you know how humans can be motivated to change, and that stigmatizing someone isn't a terribly motivating type of thing. Unless you want consequences beyond the ones that happen now... and yes, there are consequences now, though you may not consider them harsh enough for your tastes. Personally if someone took my child away from me, that would be the worst thing ever to happen, so it's a bit strange to say these parents get no consequences for not making changes. They pay the ultimate price.

Anyway, I'm sure it's frustrating, but if you look beneath the surface you'll find a living breathing person. A person who has their own reasons and barriers to getting their lives straight.

If you are looking for a one size fits all answer, you won't find it. It's not an either / or situation and you cannot pigeon hole every person into a 'cant help themselves' box or a 'wont' help themselves box.

A social worker meets diverse people in a range of different situations. Obviously there are correlations that a sw will observe especially when they have a lot of experience. But I'd steer clear of the binary choices which come with a judgement attached.

Sadly, I am from an area with a lot of helpless people and I do understand what you're saying, OP. There are generations of family with the same, dependent, attitudes. At the minute, loads are complaining about the benefits cuts and how it infringes their human rights... The idea of getting a job never occurred to them!

I visit every few months, and they never change. So yeah, I'd like to see a different approach!