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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to just leave at my normal time?

161 replies

Chilver · 20/11/2016 08:54

My office has mandated training in a certain day. My daughter's (nearly 5yo) first play, where she has lines, is on the same day at 5.15pm. She is very excited and talks loads about me seeing her in her first play. My commute is 1.05mins.

I asked the office director if there was an agenda as yet for the day as I would be gutted to miss the play and want to see if I could leave at 4pm. (It could potentially also be my last day at work for the year). He has responded with a cheery 'the agenda runs from 9am-5pm. Your request cannot be accommodated. Sorry!'

My contracted hours are 9am-4.30pm with flexible start and end times; I work 8am to 4.30pm every day. Could I just leave at 4.30 and hope I get there to at least hear my daughter's part? Or should I stay until 5pm and miss the play entirely. Or just walk out anyway at 4pm??? AIBU to be pissed particularly at his cheery response (he hasn't actually got the detailed agenda from trainer, just a generic block time)??

OP posts:
mammamic · 22/11/2016 20:15

It depends on what your job is and what the training is.

Why there are negative comments re the response, I don't understand. The person was asked a question and they sent a reply. Succinct but clear - the training is from 9-5, so request cannot be accommodated.

And it may be worthwhile considering - school plays, other plays, things you want to see - book the am/pm off. That's what most people do - then there's no issue.

PrettyBotanicals · 22/11/2016 20:19

Yes I do.

And I would always try and accommodate such requests when reasonable notice is given and the timing of the activity is flexible.

Very comfortable with my priorities, thanks.

When my own kids were small I had just started my own business. Sometimes I saw them in things, sometimes I didn't.

They didn't suffer.

JosephineMaynard · 22/11/2016 20:21

The thing I'm struggling to understand here - all this "you must go to the play as your kid is more important, it's just boring training" stuff from some people.....

Yes, the children are more important, I get that most parents would rather see the play than do the training course, but - if pulling a sickie / inventing appointments / just walking out resulted in disciplinary action that costs you your job, won't the results of that be worse for the child in the long term than mum not being able to go to the play?

Given that most people work to pay the bills rather than just for fun?

Thegirlinthefireplace · 22/11/2016 20:32

If it were me I would set about trying to overcome objections. I would reply with something about how flexibility on both sides has always driven the employer/employee relationship and with that in mind, what are the barriers to leaving at 4 and see how you can overcome them.

NotTheFordType · 22/11/2016 20:35

Which was arranged (and notified to you) first - the training, or the play?

If you had already agreed to attend the training from 9-5, then you miss the play.

If you'd already arranged to attend the play, then you leave at normal time to attend that.

Your DC need to learn the important lesson that the world doesn't revolve around them, and that if they expect to be paid a good salary in a rewarding job, they need to be flexible to reasonable requests. Sometimes this may mean missing wee Jemima's 30 second turn as Fairy Nuff.

TigerLily666 · 22/11/2016 20:48

I would leave at my usual time. unlikely that training will go on till 5pm, Everyone will want to leave as soon as possible I'm sure. I would play it by ear though and just announce a family issue after lunch meaning you have to leave bang on time. Wouldn't go through formal channels as these things take so long, and no doubt there will be a policy that has to be followed.

JustCallMeKate · 22/11/2016 20:55

What I don't understand is why the OP threw a trantrum and went to another manager when one manager had already said they couldn't accommodate her request. I also don't comprehend why the OP desperately needed to leave early when her DH was going to attend the concert anyway. I'd have had more empathy if the OP was the only parent able to attend but she's not, she wants to go as a couple with her DH.

JustCallMeKate · 22/11/2016 20:57

Sometimes this may mean missing wee Jemima's 30 second turn as Fairy Nuff

😂😂. Exactly. I love the Fairy Nuff. Brilliant.

topcat2014 · 22/11/2016 20:59

God, who are all these people who think office work is the be all and end all of everything.

And it always seems to be men (of which I am one) who think these new computer systems or whatever are so amazing. The system will not end up doing what you bought it for - and anyway you only ever learn new systems by working with them.

The training will be a bit dull - it always is -, and finish early anyway as people will get bored.

can you tell I have had a bit of a shite day as a Finance Director today

Goodfood1 · 22/11/2016 21:50

Go to the play. Believe me you will never forgive yourself and it is priceless.I'm saying this from experience. One of the worse decisions I made and still upsetting 18 years later. Some things can be repaired ie missing an hr of course. Some can't ie missing first play.

AskBasil · 22/11/2016 21:54

"I've just signed off on an eye watering sum for my team to attend some software training in another city."

Did you book it without consulting them about dates and times?

Thought not.

zeezeek · 22/11/2016 21:59

I employ people and invest a lot of my project and departmental budget on training in order to equip people to have the skills they need to do the work and for them to progress. The training is for all our benefits. It requires an investment on my side - letting those people have the time to do it and paying for them out of my budget, and on their side - going to the training, staying all day and implementing what they have learnt.

Anyone not taking this seriously will not have me investing my budget in them ever again. If that includes missing something one of many school events with children, then so be it. You have to decide what is your priority. Fine if it's kids, but don't expect employers to prioritise you.

ilovesooty · 22/11/2016 22:07

Our mandatory training includes safeguarding and equality and diversity. We usually get given a selection of dates to choose from. Some training is simply advised in advance though. Unless you can persuade your manager to let you defer until the next round, you have to go when it's been scheduled.

Idontbelievethelies · 22/11/2016 22:21

It could be in your contract OP that you need to attend mandatory training, and hours are to suit the needs of the business etc. I know you said you'd made sure you had a 4.30 finish time in there but is there no clause for them to ask you to attend training etc?

AskBasil · 22/11/2016 22:25

Our training is never arranged without checking with staff members when it's convenient.

If it's central corporate training, then it's the luck of the draw if it's on a non-working day; in that situation, there is no expectation that an employee should attend, anymore than if it were a Saturday or Sunday, because my organisation accepts that people's non-working days are just that - non working days.

Having said that, most employees choose to try and juggle in order to attend training because they want to. Because, er, training. No-one misses training voluntarily, people want to learn and ensure their skills are updated.

FrancisCrawford · 22/11/2016 22:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ethelb · 22/11/2016 22:34

OP, im sorry but I have to disagree strongly with the views on this thread saying you should do it.

There is a bizarre expectation by some pisstaking women that they will get time off personal events once they have children. The attitude stinks.

Better maternity pay, flexible working and emergency childcare I would fight to the death for. But your attitude? That is why employers consider mothers unreliable which affects all women's job prospects. You are being unbelievably selfish OP, and the women sniggering along with you snd suggesting you should just get up and leave are a huge, huge part of the problem.

Want2bSupermum · 22/11/2016 22:39

Chilver It is a book by Susan Maushart. Take a look on Amazon for it and give it your DH for Christmas. I got my DH the audio CD and stuck it in the car when he was driving 500 miles to Canada. It was the only thing he could listen to because his fancypants Audi radio wasn't working and I took the other CDs out of the machine.

Yes my DH deserves a medal for putting up with me but every single man and woman should ready wifework before they shack up with someone. DH now steps up a lot more than he used to.

AskBasil · 22/11/2016 22:44

"That is why employers consider mothers unreliable which affects all women's job prospects."

No, it's not. It really isn't. Structural sexism is why some employers consider mothers unreliable.

When women say things that are unprofessional, they are told that it's their fault sexism exists. When men say things that are unprofessional, they are not told it's their fault that structural unemployment exists.

PrettyBotanicals · 22/11/2016 23:01

Did you book it without consulting them about dates and times?

Within reason, but we need everyone able to use it by January and the dates were provided by the supplier and aren't flexible.

It's like herding cats organising training at the best of times; I have to consider remote workers, days without meetings, one colleague whose father is currently being put in a home and another whose child is unhappy at boarding school.

Neither of them, to my knowledge, thinks I'm a dick or Hitler-like Grin

If that house of cards was threatened by someone claiming they couldn't miss a non-school play that their partner was attending anyway, then yes. I'd take a really dim view of their commitment.

Training is expensive and, in my company at least, important. I take staff development seriously and I think the learning and bonding is useful for everyone.

DirtyDancing · 22/11/2016 23:15

I literally wouldn't even enter into this. Do NOT ask. You're not at school.

TELL the trainer on the day that you will be leaving at 4.30pm due to child care committtements. And this man sounds like a dick, so I would be leaving and refusing to explain anything to him the next day

AskBasil · 22/11/2016 23:17

Exactly. Within reason.

Whereas the guy in the OP didn't.

You get fuck ups like this and unprofessional responses, when you don't treat people with professional courtesy.

ladyjadey · 22/11/2016 23:19

A wise woman once told me

You will never lie on your death bed and wish you spend more time at work

Family is more important. I work full time but there are some things I cannot miss for my kids and I will take holiday or time owed. I have had many a time when I've apologised to my children for not being able to do dance classes, parties and friends for tea. But I always try to be there for the plays, parents evenings and sports days.

That said, simply stating you cannot accommodate childcare outside your usual hours on this occasion will probably get you further than mentioning a school play because most bosses will give zero shits.

Original poster
Chilver · 22/11/2016 23:44

Too many responses to respond to individually. So many posters are ignoring my (many) posts stating that I would never just leave or pull a sickie. They are also ignoring the hundreds of hours unpaid overtime I work to ensure deliverables are met and professionalism by me is maintained, despite having, say like today, actually worked a 19hr day. These posters are using this to promote the sexist bollocks that all mothers are not committed to work - enough! This is not that situation (see previous about my regular overtime at the expense of seeing my child). This was an irked post about a person, not my boss, making a unilateral decision that was not theirs to make about whether I attend a training session that I had just been told to attend. Incidentally, the training was booked AFTER the play. And no, it's not a school, or church, play so there will not be ten a penny in my future.

And Ethelb, I take serious umbrage at your comments about my attitude and being selfish. I do not have an attitude about this - see all previous posts about my commitment to work - and if anyone is being selfish it's the office director who denied my (non)request to leave on time. The reason being is because he is incompetent and needs me to do his job for him so I need to do the training to ensure he knows what to do despite attending the training himself (which he happily acknowledges whilst pocketing a considerably higher salary)!

OP posts:
TheStoic · 23/11/2016 00:43

Women pulling sickies to go and watch Mary and Joseph are one of the reasons why women are not given the positions of responsibility they often deserve. Because some of them give the rest this kind of reputation.

Women who leave work early to attend a child's event are unreliable. Men who leave work early to attend a child's event are a Father of The Year nominee.