to just leave at my normal time?

[Chilver]

My office has mandated training in a certain day. My daughter's (nearly 5yo) first play, where she has lines, is on the same day at 5.15pm. She is very excited and talks loads about me seeing her in her first play. My commute is 1.05mins.

I asked the office director if there was an agenda as yet for the day as I would be gutted to miss the play and want to see if I could leave at 4pm. (It could potentially also be my last day at work for the year). He has responded with a cheery 'the agenda runs from 9am-5pm. Your request cannot be accommodated. Sorry!'

My contracted hours are 9am-4.30pm with flexible start and end times; I work 8am to 4.30pm every day. Could I just leave at 4.30 and hope I get there to at least hear my daughter's part? Or should I stay until 5pm and miss the play entirely. Or just walk out anyway at 4pm??? AIBU to be pissed particularly at his cheery response (he hasn't actually got the detailed agenda from trainer, just a generic block time)??

My experience of training days is that everything is done well before the end , the last hour is there to mop up any overrun from earlier in the day, and any questions etc. You could have a word with the trainer at the start of the day and explain you need to leave at 4. That way they can juggle the agenda, cut the coffee breaks and lunch breaks by a few minutes here and there and make sure that all the essential stuff is done by 4 and you can just slip out. Is your actual boss more willing to be flexible? You could ok this approach with him/ her in advance? Don't miss the play, your little girl will be gutted.

Chilver: If you are going to look for a new job anyway then stop worrying. Just tell them you will be leaving on time.

I think I'd contact the trainer directly, if you can, and explain your dilemma. I lecture on occasion, usually all- or half-day sessions, and I would be more than happy to accommodate a request like this.

You should have booked a days holiday. If they have already said you can't go then you are risking your job.

Well, I'm obviously a right hard cow, but I'd explain to DC that Mum HAS to work, but will try to get there. Assure her she will be great and look forward to hearing all about it. Then go to the training, ask for shortened break times to finish early, and see if you can still get there. Trainer and others may well be happy with an early finish!
For me, doing work properly = income = family survival. Some firsts may have to be missed. Too much time struggling financially has given me this mindset.
I know this will be unpopular!

I would have just presented it as fair accompli.

"Of course, I'll be leaving at 4 as its may daughter's play and I put it in the diary ages ago"

But I work pretty flexibly in a place where this would be acceptable.

It's ridiculous, you should leave at 4.

Speak to the trainer about it in advance and ask them if they can accommodate it/what you would miss - I'm sure they will be more positive. It could just be a case of you going first in the group for something.

And speak to HR too.

Your contract specifies additional hours where necessary and you've been refused permission to leave before the end of the training so simply leaving doesn't seem like an option to me. I think you need to keep negotiating - I think it's likely that the day won't carry on until 5pm.
When attending training in my company the trainers have to advise head office of any late arrivals and early leavers.

I would probably say no more about it, then on the day of the training speak to the trainer and explain - my experience is they usually finish early anyway, and if they know you need to go they could cut down break times etc to accommodate.

I've attended and facilitated a good deal of training and the participants are always asked how they want to structure the day, including short breaks and early finish.

What Toast said

However if I thought nobody would notice I would bugger off at the final coffee break and hope nobody noticed. But then I am naughty like that.

Not sure whether to speak to my boss directly and have him potentially override it?

YES. Do that. Your local boss is more invested in keeping workers happy.

email to your actual boss:

"Just a quick one to note that while I am always as flexible as possible on the xx can we ensure the agenda completes at 4.30 (4 would be preferable) as I have outside commitments and I don't want to miss the end of the training when I leave.

Hope this is ok as I know the agenda is not yet set, happy to start earlier or have a working lunch to accommodate.

Me

Assuming the person who said no won't actually be there on the day, I would arrange this unofficially with the trainer in the morning. 'I really need to get away just after 4, hope that's OK, perhaps we could have a shorter break?' But prepare your dd for the possibility that you might be late / not make it just in case. Its much better to do these things off the record rather than have an email trail of requests (and potential refusals).

Unfortunately there will only be 3 of us, including the Director, in the training so just slipping out unnoticed won't be possible.

I will speak with my boss next week I think. I like the idea of presenting a fait accompli on leaving at my normal time and seeing what he says.

If you cant do the time don't do the crime.

Find out if there could be any flexibility and what the consequences will be for walking out of paid training an hour early, then as long as you are prepared to accept the consequences then go for it. At our work, depending on the training it could be disciplinary, it certainly would be seen and noted as very unprofessional. If you are planning on leaving anyway maybe this is not an issue for you, unless there is a disciplinary and it goes on your reference.

Can someone record the play for you? Can her dad or a grandparent go instead so someone is watching her?

I missed my quiet and shy ds play Joseph in nativity one year. I was summoned as a witness at court and when I arrived was told I would not be called but had to stay in the witness room just incase they changed their mind. Asked if I could pop across the road to see ds and would be back immediately if called, but was told a warrant could be issued for my arrest if I left the building. I could see ds's class enter the church hall across the road from the court from the witness room window and couldn't go.

It was torture, but ds enjoyed telling me how it went, his dad went and ds also enjoyed me watching a recording on dh's phone and listening to him tell me how good he was, ds learned that sometimes you cant do things even if you really wanted to be there, and tbh everyone forgot about it in a couple of days.

Could you work your lunch break and email that? If possible work 2 lunch breaks or half of them?

The thing is that your contract may say you need to do additional hours occasionally as needed, but you do do that! This is one occasion where you need to take up the official 4.30pm leaving time that is also in your contract.

Honestly, I would just call in sick. What's he going to do?

Could you ask someone to take notes for the time you're away from course or get a link (webinar or whatever) for some or all of it so you can catch up in your own time.

If you were suddenly really ill what would they do re training it'd have to be sorted out some other way??

I've never had training that finished at 5pm. Training times were subject to negotiations as others have said. The subjects to be covered and approximate time for each was set out and we discussed timings, lunch and coffee breaks, etc, so that we could cover the stuff and still leave early.

I think it would be much better to negotiate an early finish than call in sick. She might well be subject to unpleasant enquiries and disciplinary proceedings.

Pulling a sickie is unprofessional, but so is refusing point blank to try and accommodate an otherwise reliable employees request for a bit of flexibility for a special occasion. Mandatory training is essential but is it in your contract that you should be expected to stay later than your usual contracted hours in order to attend? Personally I would be overriding the training manager and speaking to your actual boss by email or by telephone.

I would email your boss saying that you need to leave at 4pm due to childcare issues. Say that you are willing to speak to the trainer to find out what is being covered in the last hour so that you can catch up in your own time.

Copy in the office director/manager.

And leave it at that unless you get a response.

No way would I miss the play! My job is incredibly important to me but my children come first. Worst case scenario they will be annoyed with you but they can't do much else.

Employees only have to work overtime if their contract says so.
www.gov.uk/overtime-your-rights/compulsory-overtime

Contact ACAS for advice, but if your contracted hours are until 4.30 he cannot insist you work overtime. Its illegal.
Rhey have to schedule the training to fit with your contracted hours.

The Acas helpline number is 0300 123 1100. It is available Monday 8am-8pm, Tuesday 8am-6pm, Wednesday to Thursday 8am-8pm, Friday 8am-6pm and Saturday 9am-1pm.

www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2042