to just leave at my normal time?

[Chilver]

My office has mandated training in a certain day. My daughter's (nearly 5yo) first play, where she has lines, is on the same day at 5.15pm. She is very excited and talks loads about me seeing her in her first play. My commute is 1.05mins.

I asked the office director if there was an agenda as yet for the day as I would be gutted to miss the play and want to see if I could leave at 4pm. (It could potentially also be my last day at work for the year). He has responded with a cheery 'the agenda runs from 9am-5pm. Your request cannot be accommodated. Sorry!'

My contracted hours are 9am-4.30pm with flexible start and end times; I work 8am to 4.30pm every day. Could I just leave at 4.30 and hope I get there to at least hear my daughter's part? Or should I stay until 5pm and miss the play entirely. Or just walk out anyway at 4pm??? AIBU to be pissed particularly at his cheery response (he hasn't actually got the detailed agenda from trainer, just a generic block time)??

A sickie is definitely unprofessional, but sometimes you have to put family first. It is fair enough that the Director can't or won't move the training or let her go early, but that doesn't mean the OP can't make the choice to suck up feeling unprofessional on this one occasion and turn up to the play.

At least attempting to negotiate by contacting her own boss doesn't put the OP at risk of disciplinary action for gross misconduct. Pulling a sickie would be putting her at risk.

Sooty: Of course, I'm not denying that. Her call.

This might be unpopular but I agree with Bluetrews. A kids play is not a special occasion. A wedding or funeral is a special occasion. You can ask the trainer if you can shuffle the day but you have to base it on your day being 9-5.

If you know the other people on the course, discuss it with them and then collectively propose a 430pm finish on the trainer.

AnUtterIdiot is definitely not!

One of very few talking sense on this thread.

Women pulling sickies to go and watch Mary and Joseph are one of the reasons why women are not given the positions of responsibility they often deserve. Because some of them give the rest this kind of reputation.

OP- all the sympathy in the world, but try and negotiate and if there is no negotiation to be had, then my advice (as a mother, and someone who has to attend training days and give them too) is to suck it up.

There will be other moments.

If you absolutely cannot leave early might it be possible to attend the dress rehearsal?

I soooo agree with utteridiot an vintage here. As a mum and grandma I have had to miss many a school play or sports day because I needed to be at work. These occaisiond as not the times when children come before work.....that's saved for illnesses , funerals etc.

However as someone who has been a trainer I am always ready to discuss flexibility in breaks and finish times as long as participants are prepared to work hard and get all the necessary agenda covered.

As an employer in a small company I totally agree that attitudes like many expressed here are why many are reluctant to employ women with small children even if law says we must not discriminate.

This really is a no win situation.
I don't see a school play as a special occasion but if you must then contact your direct boss and present it as a fait accompli.

Well it probably isn't considered a special occasion to an employer but it will considered special by the child. The school will be bigging it up for weeks to the children, it's all part of the joy and excitement that lead up to Christmas. And sorry but to all those saying this is why women don't help themselves in terms of employment - what utter shite!! Many many Dads also turn up to the school nativity play, they take the time off work and negotiate in the same way as the mother - I can honestly say there are as many Dad's at the school play as there are Mum's in our school. Would you be put off employing a man with school age children?

Maybe all those parents weren't pulling a sickie though?

Nobody is saying that it's not a shame if a parent cannot go to a school play.

Pulling a sickie or just saying "I'm going ner ner" is unacceptable.

PS You missed the bit where the OP says it isn't a school play btw.

Personally emberfly I don't really care about the gender of any person in my employ just their attitude. If its possible to release a person then its done .. like yesterday from lunchtime for a dd birthday trip... but if not then I explain why. Oh and the people that I work with are all women with children its just their attitudes are to be honest, not pull sickies if they don't get their own way and realize that I try my hardest to cover any absence myself as our work requires specified number of people present.

Can you email your ACTUAL boss and ask if you can start your annual leave a day early? Don't mention the training or the discussion you have had with training boss.

Then don't even mention to the training boss that you won't be there until your last day.

I wouldn't pull a sickie unless you don't need the income. Is her father on the scene? Could he go? Grandparents?

If it's mandated training I don't think trying to leave a day early and not mentioning the request or discussions is a good idea at all.

If there are only 3 of you on the training, why can't it just start 30mins earlier?

I wouldn't mention your hours.

Just say that on this day you have something you need to do at 5pm, say normally you could have accommodated his request but not on that day, ''sorry!''

I'd say off sick tho day, the day before and the day after.

I normally wouldn't advocate this type of shyster behaviour, but your boss deserves it. This is your child - you don't get a chance to do these years again.

I think it's outrageous to be advocating pulling sickies or citing 'childcare arrangements'. And I agree with *Vintage: 'Women pulling sickies to go and watch Mary and Joseph are one of the reasons why women are not given the positions of responsibility they often deserve. Because some of them give the rest this kind of reputation.'

Work the time and explain to your child that these things happen.

Or leave at your normal time of 4.30 and hope to get there in time for the play.

How long have you know about the meeting and the play? If the meeting is a relatively recent booking, I would just say "I'm sorry but I have a prior engagement that means I have to leave at 4. I made the arrangement on the basis of my existing working hours, and it can't be rescheduled."

Since you're contractually obligated to be at work until 4.30pm and have already had a polite request for an early departure declined, I wouldn't rock the boat at work.

I think you need to get creative:

1. You don't make the play. Is there a suitable alternative who could go instead? Daddy, Grandma or another adored adult in your daughter's life such as a babysitter she loves or neighbour she thinks the world of. I know they are not you, but you show you care and there is an excellent lesson for your daughter to learn about how (even!) adults sometimes cannot be where they want to be, alongside the benefits and value of your job in that it provides for your life. Your absence will not scar her for life!

2. Talk to your office director again, in a scheduled 1:1. Explain your wish to make your daughter's play, but understand the importance and value of the training as well as the issues associated with making exceptions re: non attendance and early departure. Perhaps the training could be rescheduled on another day (there may be other issues with the date you aren't aware of), could start earlier in the morning, be put into a shorter day by changing break/lunch lengths etc.

I think my main strategy would be asking if he minded you leaving at 4pm if you caught up what you missed. (I'd do this by offering wine/chocolates to a colleague ahead of time to one who will assist this.) I'd also discuss how he wanted to then handle your early departure with colleagues (he might feel more comfortable mentioning a critical appointment instead of your daughter's play.)

He has a shitty attitude. I only got the date for DS nativity last week, he also has a line! It's at 2.30 miles away on a day when the department is practically deserted. I brought it up at my departmental meeting and all my colleagues (all men, if that makes any difference) insisted I go. One of the guys is going to work an extra afternoon.

I think emailing the trainers is one of the best ideas on the thread.

I think mintychocs answer is the best. Prior engagement made on the basis of flexitime.

The attitudes of those who would just walk out or pull a sickie are why working mums have a bad reputation among employers and colleagues

Flexible start and finish times presumably mean for both you and your employer, so they can ask you to stay late as they have done, for a valid reason such as training.

If the director isn't your actual boss, speak to your actual boss and see if the training can be planned to allow you to finish at 4.30, or ideally 4 if possible. Point out that you are normally very happy to stay late but on this occasion you really need to finish at your usual time.

If your boss says no, tough. Do not pull a sickie. Do not walk out of the training. Hopefully it will end up finishing earlier than scheduled and you can make the play, but if it doesn't then that's unfortunate but tough.

If I was your colleague I'd be happy to have training moved half an hour earlier or a shorter break and finish earlier, or both. I would be very unimpressed if you just buggered off at 4pm or pulled a sickie. Your boss will find out and you will rightly get in trouble which could affect your reference