to just leave at my normal time?

[Chilver]

My office has mandated training in a certain day. My daughter's (nearly 5yo) first play, where she has lines, is on the same day at 5.15pm. She is very excited and talks loads about me seeing her in her first play. My commute is 1.05mins.

I asked the office director if there was an agenda as yet for the day as I would be gutted to miss the play and want to see if I could leave at 4pm. (It could potentially also be my last day at work for the year). He has responded with a cheery 'the agenda runs from 9am-5pm. Your request cannot be accommodated. Sorry!'

My contracted hours are 9am-4.30pm with flexible start and end times; I work 8am to 4.30pm every day. Could I just leave at 4.30 and hope I get there to at least hear my daughter's part? Or should I stay until 5pm and miss the play entirely. Or just walk out anyway at 4pm??? AIBU to be pissed particularly at his cheery response (he hasn't actually got the detailed agenda from trainer, just a generic block time)??

Your boss sounds like he is being very helpful with regard to allowing you to work flexible hours. Missing your child's play is hardly a good reason to walk out early that day, it's not exactly an emergency is it. Just suck it up and get on with your job, you might be able to see your child in action another year.

Agree with harderandharder. I also suspect the people shouting loudest that she should pull a sickie or just walk out, are either not in employment or perhaps have quite menial jobs where this type of thing Happens.

The OP has made it very clear that there is a flexible working arrangement which she benefits from, and part of that is that the flexibility cuts both ways. The employer needs everyone there for a specific piece of training, they have given plenty of notice and all the OP can do is make a good case for getting away earlier.

I manage a team and always try very hard to accommodate reasonable requests, so if someone came to me and said 'I really want to get away a bit earlier; I realise it's tricky but I'll do x,y and z to mitigate that' then I would move heaven and earth to accommodate them.

If they threw a sickie or walked out they'd be on a disciplinary

I think you should go to the training and if you can make the play then thats a bonus. Children need to know that their parents need to work and sometimes they have to miss things because of work.

Munstermonch, it's a bit patronising to suggest that people encouraging the op to find a way to get out in time are not in employment or doing menial jobs 'where this type of thing Happens'. Personally, I have a professional career, and an employer committed to flexible working, and a management line who would try to accommodate people rather than just refuse to even discuss a slightly early finish. I would not at all advocate a sicky by the way. But arranging a training day to finish an hour early is probably very possible - particularly as there are only a handful of them there so there probably won't need to be the same time built into the course for discussion as if you had a class of 30. It looks like her office manager is just going out of his way to be unhelpful.

Thanks all for input. I definitely wouldn't pull a sicky. I think the reasons I am so riled is by his cheery response. I didn't actually ASK him if I can leave early - I asked for the agenda for the day so I could determine if there is going to be a conflict. Also, the reason I had to work so much overtime, is due to him not showing up on entire days, handing masses of work over last minute, not coming in to work until gone 11am leaving me to pick up the slack, telling me I have to go to senior conferences the night before the event with no handover, brief etc etc. All that has been discussed with HR and my direct boss so it was just his cheery 'your request has been denied' bit that made me so annoyed.

I get the gender thing but this is not it. It's not whether I am male or female - women making comments about 'well I did it, so you should just suck it up too' do not help in the work towards a flexible and equal working world for either gender!

Given that information I reckon you have nothing to lose by negotiating with your direct boss.

I would cheerfully pull a sickie as I have said. And I am not in a 'menial job' (as if it mattered). I just think inflexible workplaces aren't worth my time. I do many, many hours over my contracted hours and for that reason I expect (and, as a manager, I give to others) a certain level of flexibility providing the work is done. And all this 'women and mothers giving everyone a bad name stuff'? Meh. I would say the same to a man. And let's not pretend men never pull sickies!

Munster you are wrong actually. I am a manager and, although I wouldn't walk out, I would tell my boss that I had to leave at 4pm and offer a solution to anything I missed in the last hour - for example speaking to the trainer in advance and putting time in my diary to catch up at work or at home.

Being a working parent is a hard balance especially when it comes to Christmas where there are lots of plays and nativities etc. My oldest knows I can't make it to everything but a talking part in a play is a big deal!

Just call in sick OP! Sounds like your boss is a dick and you already give over and above. Remember what life is about. Watching your child's play will stay with you for life, the training day will not. Don't have any regrets.

Your office director sounds awful. Where is the work life balance in that? I would go at 4pm.

If you're contracted till 4:30pm, leave at 4:30pm.

A 5 year olds play is extremely unlikely to start bang on time anyways.

'Flexible working' doesn't mean always get what you want though.

Sometimes it does have to be a no.

I'd get in touch with the trainer. Ask if he/ she thinks it will be possible for you to complete the training by 4pm (eg. if you are able to go first, or take a test another day). I would then cc your boss and send this other guy (the cheery one) an email, saying you have checked with the trainer and blah blah blah. It's effort but it's also worth it as a bit of a nah nah nah nah I'm so mature!

Most courses finish early in my experience.

Are you a single parent OP? Is there no GP/DH etc that could attend?

So, my boss was over today and I spoke to him (unfortunately the office director ear wigged and heard me, but oh well!)

My boss immediately said 'family is important, of course you must go to the play' . Suggested we talk to the trainer and work something out. Unfortunately he was in a rush between meetings (not my usual choice to address things in such a manner but he was flying out again this afternoon) so we didn't discuss who would speak to the trainer etc etc but I can deal with the logistics with him next week. So, in theory, he has approved and overridden the director (who is awful as a pp said!) so hopefully it will all work out now.

Totally agree with harderandharder. I don't make everything at work or in my personal life. It is always a compromise. DH and I share the appointments so in this situation I would have DH attend and record DCs performance for us to all watch later. I would then speak to the trainer to see if they can finish early.

I have missed my kids performances and medical appointments. They have a father and he can do some of the wifework for a change.

Lol, I, and DH object to such things being called 'wifework'! I would call it parent 'work' if I had to label it at all - or actually, just being there for my child.

If it helps the context, in the past I have put EVERYTHING into my working life and have suffered dreadfully with my health (advanced cancer of which stress was a contributing factor); I nearly died and now, although I do find myself over giving to work, I try and put my family first. This is one of those occasions. (I say as I am still sitting at work having been up since 4am working on a project...)

I have to ask OP why didn't your DH just go instead of making a drama at work about the performance?

Chilver I hate to admit this but it's actually DH who calls it wifework since he read the book. I tell him it's parenting and as both of us are parents to our DC both of us should be covering these events. He has much more flexibility in his schedule as he is in a management position. I earn less and am in the junior role so its been a tough few years of me pushing him hard. He actually likes going to some of the school events now although he would never admit it to the guys.

" The contract says that they can require you to work extra hours if necessary and your employer says the training's mandatory. "

That doesn't mean an employer can snap their fingers and require you to work outside your hours without your agreement. Any extra hours need to be negotiated by both parties, not simply decreed without discussion.

If there are only 4 of you going to training, why wasn't there consultation as to the date and times? This has been very badly arranged. But given that your boss is reasonable, unlike the twat who organised and lorded it re times etc., I'm glad it's being sorted.

As to the nonsense about "it's women throwing sickies that causes sexism in the workplace" er, no it isn't. It's sexism that causes sexism. Men pulling sickies because they've got stuff on they want to do, isn't pointed at as a cause of mass unemployment. It's only when women or other minority groups behave badly, that it's pointed at as a cause of structural sexism, racism, homophobia etc. It's bullshit and it makes excuses for structural disadvantage.

I wouldn't suggest you walked out at 4pm without clearing it and getting authorisation. If they wanted to, they could discipline you for going AWOL and would have grounds to, but I would be interested to see what your contract actually states about your flexible start and finish times and if prior authorisation is still needed if you wanted to finish earlier than 4.30? If your contracted hours are 9-4.30 I would just state you need to finish at your usual time due to prior commitments. Officially there would be little they could do about that but I guess a general reluctance to be flexible on your part to participate fully in company training may be mentally noted by them.

I must look for that book, Want2be!

JustCallMeKate - no drama at work. I asked for the agenda; my office director took it upon himself to deny a request (that I hadn't made); I didn't respond; I spoke to my direct boss when he was next in - no drama, except on Mumsnet, when I wanted a little vent and advice!!

Is it so hard to believe that both my DH and I want to go to the event? I realise that is not always possible; it was just the way my office director responded that irked me.

Don't pull a sickie, i know most people think its trivial to call in sick but you have already requested not to work that evening it looks suspicious if you call in sick, there was a lad I used to work with who got caught at the cinema the night he threw sickie and got sacked.