To let my toddler play in a graveyard

[RegencyRomanceReader]

Just seen a house that we might buy. It has no garden but backs on to a large old cemetary. We went for a walk around it before the viewing and my toddler was in love! obviously I stopped him climbing on the graves (most are raised stone with statues, huge crossed etc from 18th century onwards) and made him keep to the paths. He was running round pretending to see the gruffallo, pointing out squirrels, birds etc and jumping in puddles. He was not standing on graves but he was loud and excited and pointing out angels and authors and things. There was no one around and no fresh graves (not that old graves deserved less respect). As I one off I'm confident we didn't upset anyone or intrude on anyone's grief but if we bought the house this could become a regular thing (its a city so green space like this without cars is good dust). Wibu to take him for runs here regularly?

There are some bizzarly OTT answers (bearing in mind it is an old grave yard not one in recent use) on here mixed in with lots of moderate ones

In The City (square mile) there is more than one old grave yard used by adults to have lunch in (many sit on graves) - is that also disgusting and disrespectful, or is it fine to sit on a grave eating your egg mayo and playing on your phone/ telling your colleague about how drunk you got last night if you are a besuited adult but not fine for an innocent toddler to play around graves?

Some bloody dismal attitudes to graveyards being reserved only for misery too.

On the other hand a graveyard is probably not the safest place for a toddler Togo specifically to play and you might get needles and broken glass as well as unsafe masonry in an old no longer used graveyard, so I would not bank on it as a garden/ park substitute!

Thank you for all you comments. I am really sorry so many read this as me allowing my toddler to jump on graves, push over tombstones and the like. He was walking/toddler running on the concrete paths not over anyone's graves. My question has clearly been answered though most view it as disrespectful. I would like to think we would still go for walks there but perhaps holding hands not running ahead and never if we see anyone at graves. I wonder if the people who felt most strongly also feel dog walking/jogging is wierd/disrespectful? I know its not the same as toddlers are noisy.

saltybitch this graveyard reminds me a lot of towerhamlets actually! They even have a children's education centre there or they did when I lived in London

miserable sorry to hear of your loss, that is awful that a toddler disturbed the grave.

Broomstick your nature reserve / party venue / active cemetery sounds perfect

How lovely RegencyRomanceReader. It sounds like a really lovely place to be buying a house near. I hope it all goes well and that you and your family enjoy living there, if you do decide to.

In my Primary school years I walked to school and back through a beautiful city cemetary which was still being used. I was on first name terms with the gravediggers and got to school more safely than using the main road.

I have some wonderful memories of that cemetary. One Winter a pipe burst overnight and the next morning the yew tree above it was festooned with icicles. The box hedges and permanent flower displays were the keeper's pride and joy- he had his own mock Tudor cottage in the grounds. Some families visited the graves at the same time every week and I can imagine they heard me practising my recorder like some kind of woodland sprite!

As I got older I used to ride my bike through the graveyard (dismounting if there was a funeral) to get to the city park on the other side. I suppose most of the unsavoury business went on there and "our side" of the graveyard was a bit more remote.

I was not the only one! All the kids near me did the same. So, OP, I would say YANBU and positively encourage you to buy that house.

I think it's disrespectful. Fair enough if you go a walk through one as a family but seeing it as a surrogate playground is not appropriate in my opinion, regardless of how old the graves are.

The respect issue is subjective and you need to make your own call on that but I'd be very concerned about safety. Even if the graveyard is currently well maintained, who's to know the situation in a decade when DC are playing out by themselves. You'll have set the example by that point

I followed the story of that child who died in the graveyard in Scotland. It was tragic.

Did you know, cemeteries were sort of the original city parks? Big, Victorian, purpose built cemeteries which relieved the pressure on old inner city churchyards (which just couldn't cope with the growing population) were very popular places for a stroll and a nice day out until cities started providing municipal parks {Spudlet's useless fact of the day}

As long as no one is using the area I wouldn't see a problem with a child that kept to the paths, but I would worry about safety and the possibility of less than savoury behaviour in the area after dark...

YABU - this is how the start of every horror film begins!

I used to live near Bunhill fields. The name is confusing but it's a burial ground. There used to be a primary school right next door, and students often used the grounds.
Often would see children in there outside of school hours. People having picnics. Couple of Easter egg hunts.

I remember an episode of House of Cards where Claire went for a jog through a cemetery and a woman shouted at her for being disrespectful. I know it's just TV, but it reflects a view that many people hold.

There are other places to jog/play. I know some people appear not to mind, but as others have said, those that would be bothered would be very bothered.

There are some bizzarly OTT answers (bearing in mind it is an old grave yard not one in recent use) on here mixed in with lots of moderate ones hmm

In The City (square mile) there is more than one old grave yard used by adults to have lunch in (many sit on graves) - is that also disgusting and disrespectful, or is it fine to sit on a grave eating your egg mayo and playing on your phone/ telling your colleague about how drunk you got last night if you are a besuited adult but not fine for an innocent toddler to play around graves?

Yes, I do think that this is really disrespectful, far more so than an innocent toddler.
Where is this out of interest? I used to work there.

I really like the idea of normalising death by enjoying the spaces we put others to rest in.

I think it depends on the cemetery. My favorite cemetery here in Cincinnati is also an arboretum. They have tours, weddings, family photo shoots, marathons, etc., so a child playing there is really no big deal.

This one looks lovely, I know a pp mentioned it:

www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-to-do/green-spaces/city-gardens/visitor-information/Pages/Bunhill-Fields.aspx

Bunhill Fields Burial Ground
38 City Road
London, EC1Y 2BG

'I really like the idea of normalising death by enjoying the spaces we put others to rest in.'

My child's grave is not there for others to 'normalise' death or teach people about life or as a playground for kids etc etc.

This thread makes me glad she rests where she does, as it's not a space to be used for gawkers, lookie loos, circle of life kumbaya bullshit, a playground or any other disrespectful crap.

Imagine your toddler dies. You bury him. On what would have been his next birthday, you visit his grave, wanting some quiet reflection on your loss and the lost potential of his life.

When you arrive, you find another parent's child laying on your child's grave. As you approach, they shout, "look I'm a dead baby! Hahahahaha!" Then jump up and dance on your child's grave. Even if their parents quickly drag them away and tell them off, would that make you feel any happier about your loss? Would you call after them, chuckle and say "Don't worry, I always let my kid play in a graveyard! It was so convenient for me." Or would you be hurt by the disrespect shown to your poor, dead child?

The truth is you probably won't know until it happens to you. So best err on the side of caution, and don't allow your child to be the one who makes a grieving parent even more distraught in their hours of deepest despair.

Show some empathy and respect. Imagine the pure misery a grieving parent might have while they visit their child's grave. Put yourself in their place and imagine how they feel.

Another day, it could be you.

A lot of old cemeteries have to make money running events now as without new burials they have no income. York cemetery encourages people to use it for recreation and to bring picnics.

Soon enough graves over 75 years old will be reused for new burials like they are in most other countries - it is already done in London.

It does matter how old the graves are as there will be nobody still mourning if a graveyard (or large clearly identifiable sections) has been out of use since the 18th century and the remains will have long since turned into earth except in exceptional circumstances.

Walking dogs seems worse than toddlers playing on the respect side because dogs don't know not to pee or poo on graves (not very respectful even if poo is bagged).

Houses are even built on deconsecrated or unofficial graveyards from 100+ years ago.

The safety issue would seem the problem - assuming the graveyard is old. An active graveyard without large areas of only very old graves would be different.

My only issue with it is that it can be dangerous. Big heavy headstones falling over on to a child is pretty much fatal.
It wouldn't even enter my head to let my children play in a graveyard. Are there no parks/fields nearby?

Waking/toddling/scooting/jogging etc on paths I think is fine. We have a large cemetery (mostly very old) near me and it's so lovely and peaceful. I took many a long walk through with the pram when on maternity leave (not when baby was crying though!). I think sticking to the paths is not an issue, but running around between graves, statues is disrespectful. So as a place for a walk great, as a place to run around letting off steam not really appropriate unless it is a 'proper' park too.

It does matter how old the graves are as there will be nobody still mourning if a graveyard (or large clearly identifiable sections) has been out of use since the 18th century and the remains will have long since turned into earth except in exceptional circumstances.

Exactly. All of the graveyards I have been pro are historic ones. Graves of people with no family left, who are not mourning any more.

I'm obviously not suggesting going to have your lunch on the grave of somebody's recently-passed child, whilst parents sob by it.

The OP is describing a historic graveyard. I truly believe it is a lovely thing to reclaim these spaces with joy.

When you arrive, you find another parent's child laying on your child's grave. As you approach, they shout, "look I'm a dead baby! Hahahahaha!"

I go to many cemeteries, very frequently, and I can't say that I've ever witnessed anything like this. I'm sorry if you have; that's really fucked up.

I wouldn't let my 2yr old play there, I know that they are long dead but I still think it's disrespectful

We love near a cemetery like broomstick's. In the middle of a big city. It is still used for burials and ceremonies but also a nature reserve (there's a badger sett, lots of foxes, birds and even deer). Its a gorgeous party and wedding venue, concert venue, education space. My daughter attended a forest school there when she was a preschooler and I was there today letting my toddler explore the paths and play in mud. They have art exhibitions, a permanent cafe and it is overall a great community space. That said I wouldn't generally use a standard small village graveyard as a play area as it could be frowned upon and wouldn't be as much fun as the nearby streams, footpaths and parks.

As others have said it's disrespectful

Walking round quietly is fine. Running and shouting even on the paths is wrong

Find a park or another open space where people walk dogs if you want to run and make noise

In the early days of dh dying when I went to the cream I would want quiet to chill and reflect cry talk to dh etc

Maybe almost 6yrs I may feel differently

But the point being there will always be newly bereaved there feeling as idid