To not understand what Laurie Love's Aspergers has to do with his extradition

[Olympiathequeen]

Not an autism bashing thread please.

But he is a political activist. He knew what he was doing and that it was wrong.

If 10 year olds who know the difference between right and wrong can be held criminally responsible why can't he?

He caused damage and expense to the US government so he should pay for it like anyone else.

He may be a suicide risk but so are many people in jail.

Surely his Aspergers is irrelevant?

How depressing that there are two people who apparently work with people with autism who have such a poor understanding of the condition.

CloudPerson you are being very patient but I don't think it will make any difference.

It will be trotted out as an excuse for naughtiness next and it didn't happen in the 70s

I thought the same Geretrude, very sad and a worrying lack of education.

Auti explains the issue of right and wrong with someone with Aspergers really well, that's my understanding of it too based on my knowledge of my brother.

Geretrude, it's always the way. A tiny bit of stereotypical bullshit knowledge is a dangerous thing.
No wonder provision for SN is shocking.
You'd at least hope that those working with autistic people would have half a clue, but sadly too often they don't.

How depressing that there are two people who apparently work with people with autism who have such a poor understanding of the condition.

It is extremely depressing.

My brother who is mental health nurse told me ''I should not go round telling people I was mentally ill'' after I was diagnosed 2 years ago.
I told him I had a neurological difference not a mental illness, I doubt he registered and understood though.

I thought telling people about having Aspergers would lead to some understanding and acceptance but that has not been the case.

I don't talk about it anymore.

My DS has Aspergers and he is an adult holding down a full time job and living in a shared house. Of all my children I feel most protective of him, even though he is the eldest.
He has some very child like qualities and is very vulnerable in some areas, painfully so. The idea of someone with Aspergers going to any prison, let alone a US one, fills me with horror. I really feel for the family here.

No I'm not comparing him to a paedophile. I was responding to people saying that if convicted he shouldn't have access to a computer.

And my experience of people with Autism convicted of other Internet based crimes (who also possibly didn't understand the seriousness or consequences of what they were doing and had excellent IT skills and often, the Internet provided their only social network) had the same restrictions imposed on their Internet use after conviction as neurotypical offenders. That the fact that they may need the Internet perhaps more than other people/maybe didn't understand the consequences of what they were doing wasn't taken into consideration when restricting their use after conviction.

I wasn't comparing them at all apart from both being Internet based crimes - sorry if it came across wrong.

Auti, I know what you mean, I've been fairly open about my diagnosis, in the hope that I can explain and avoid the specific things that have caused issues with CAMHS and school (when communicating about ds), but it seems to be a green light for others to treat me as if I'm stupid, and talk to me really slowly and patronisingly

Extremely depressing. But then I'd expect nothing less from people who don't fully understand the condition.

Oh and RTFT. He's not trying to escape/evade justice. He's exercising his right to be tried here on British soil. Which is his right.

I dont give a flying Fuck which database he broke into. If you can't understand that the risk of a very very long sentence is ridiculously disproportionate to the crime committed, there's no help for you.

For contrast, I worked in the legal system when a very famous case was brought to court, it was a sustained abuse case where the family had been hurting the child for years , do you know what they got? 9 & 6 years respectively. For killing a young child. People who insist that LL should 'face the music' should focus their energies into those sort of crimes instead, where people literally do, get away with murder.

IMO I feel like they're insisting on extraditing LL to make an example out of him, and that's wrong.

Gutted don't engage with fishwife, the ignorance is well and truly glowing with that one

It's bang your head against the wall time...

I don't know if he saw the consequences at the time (if indeed he did it, we still don't know) because of hyperfocus and possible coercion, but he does the Ethical Hacking as part of a group called Hackers House so he has peer support to do the right thing, and a legitimate use for his skills whereas before there was no legitimate use.

But if he can't be trusted he can't be trusted. Regardless of the fact that he uses his skills legitimately or not.

Why is it surpassing that people with Aspergers don't understand how the condition effects every other person

Do people with cancer understand everyone else's cancer?

Ilovehedgehogs - quite a few. I worked in forensic MH for a few years in prisons (including a few months secondment in a dedicated sex offender prison) and in the community.

I'm not saying it's common but in my line of work I would obviously come into contact with more offenders and in my experience many, many people in prison have some kind of learning disability, neuro developmental disorder, mental illness or experience of trauma or abuse.

That's why I don't agree with the 'they know right from wrong' line when it comes to a huge amount of offenders. Yes they might 'know' because it's what they've been told but that doesn't mean they understand WHY it is wrong, the effect their offending has on victims or the consequences for them or others.

But that doesn't mean the criminal justice system treats them any differently. One of the reasons why the prison system is on its knees.

And I'll say again. I don't think he should be extradited.

There are a lot of ex-hackers who have been tried and convicted in the UK (even those who hacked databases outside the UK, including the US) who served their time and have no restrictions on their computer use afterwards, because once time is served your punishment (should) be over. When it comes to crimes related to child abuse there is always an on-going element to their punishment (e.g. sex offenders registry) because its more important to protect children than to protect the offenders' rights. It is not, however, more important to defend the right of governments to not bother to properly secure their databases. Funnily enough, the Pentagon has issued 'bug bounties' for people to try and hack it and expose its flaws - I guess the US Gov. learnt something from all this.

Exactly Pixies 99 years for an alleged crime that hurt no one (except US Gov. pride) compared to petty time for people that abuse and kill children, or rape people, or murder. Its disgusting and wrong.

Thefishewife You're a bit of an idiot, aren't you? You clearly haven't read the thread, or if you did then you lack comprehension.

He likey knew that he would face a zillion years in jail I mean if you can hack into the us govermnet main frame it's unlikely you don't realise that us jail terms are long and unpleasant

How can you say this? You have no clue about how his ASD affects him and what he understands and what he doesnt!! What a stupid comment.

Scooby it's not surprising at all, which is why it's probably best to not make blanket statements when talking about ASD, it's too variable.

I too could give three different views, each of my children have a different presentation despite sharing a diagnosis and I'm waiting for assessment myself.

Well no he wouldn't know what hes doing is wrong because that's the very nature of Aspergers Christ on a bike the fucking ignorance on this thread is shocking.

Gutted Ignore them. It's obvious that most of us on here aren't overnight lawyers or AS experts courtesy of google university

Isn't it Just Bishops imagine if the US had a close ally they could model their sentencing on. You know like the UK & their Sentencing Guidelines for example...

I don't necessarily agree with the sentencing guidelines of the U.K. pixies. I think too many crimes that have a real impact on people's lives don't have long enough sentences. Driving convictions which have led to death are one example, specifically death by careless driving for which the sentencing guidelines are pathetically low.
The US system is just bizarre and why they sentence people to 999 years is a mystery to me and given their prison population it clearly isn't an effective deterrent but I don't think any country should model their justice system on the UK.

I agree with pp that he shouldn't have any access to computers if convicted. It would be wrong to allow him to continue in that line of 'work' after what he's alleged to have done. Ethical hacking can and will continue without LL's contribution.

Would people agree with his extradition if he were facing the death penalty for the hacking?

And if not, but you still agree with this extradition, why is 99 years in jail with a high probability of suicide more palatable?

Well no he wouldn't know what hes doing is wrong because that's the very nature of Aspergers

If Aspergers make it impossible for a person to tell right from wrong (which I doubt somehow), it sounds like a very dangerous condition. How could you argue that prison is the wrong solution in that case?

noblegiraffe yes, because people like to get up on their high horse and shout "well he deserved it" or "he should have known what he's doing". It's our sick British sense of uber self righteousness in some members of society, then again their ancestors would probably have been the type to take a picnic along to a public hanging to in a sense of warped justice.

gutted is there any way you can get another expert to agree / disagree with what LLs original one said.