To not understand what Laurie Love's Aspergers has to do with his extradition

[Olympiathequeen]

Not an autism bashing thread please.

But he is a political activist. He knew what he was doing and that it was wrong.

If 10 year olds who know the difference between right and wrong can be held criminally responsible why can't he?

He caused damage and expense to the US government so he should pay for it like anyone else.

He may be a suicide risk but so are many people in jail.

Surely his Aspergers is irrelevant?

Gutted - I heard your brother's interview on R4 yesterday and was rather upset that the presenter seemed to be encouraging him to admit his 'crime'. I thought your DB coped very well despite such provocation.

I really hope that he is not extradited.

Not everyone with ASD does, and if they do they still might not appreciate the consequences of wrongdoing

Not sure I said that. As for the rest of you post, I just put my point of view over.

He is involved in Ethical Hacking (helping companies realise their security flaws - right now the group he is with have been finding the flaws in the NHS online security so it can be fixed) now so taking away computer use would be a waste of his skills.

So how would you suggest this is avoided again? If he genuinely can not see the consequences of what he did, what can be put in place to stop this happening.

Not a judgement, it's a genuine question.

So are people generally against the extradition or are people claiming that he has no conception of right or wrong and thus cannot be held criminally responsible for any illegal acts?

If it's the latter, doesn't the state have some responsibility to take away his computer use? If he genuinely can never understand when actions are wrong or illegal, it's kind of like putting a loaded gun in the hand of a child. I think the state has some responsibility to intervene to protect against future crimes.

Can a lawyer clarify: typically if someone is found not guilty by reason of incapacity, is that the end of it? They don't just walk free from the courthouse, do they?

Not really I wouldn't be very happy for some one to rob me to show me hie unsafe I am it's horse shit

If you want to help a comapy sort there security fill in a bloody job application for the it dep like every one else

So how would you suggest this is avoided again? If he genuinely can not see the consequences of what he did, what can be put in place to stop this happening
Well he sees the consequences now. I don't know if he saw the consequences at the time (if indeed he did it, we still don't know) because of hyperfocus and possible coercion, but he does the Ethical Hacking as part of a group called Hackers House so he has peer support to do the right thing, and a legitimate use for his skills whereas before there was no legitimate use.

So are people generally against the extradition or are people claiming that he has no conception of right or wrong and thus cannot be held criminally responsible for any illegal acts?

Against the extradition. He should go to trial if there is a case against him (so far CPS dropped their case due to lack of evidence but if the US hands over the evidence they supposedly have then maybe a new case can be brought). He knows right and wrong, I think the problem is maybe he is too aware of right and wrong in an ethical sense (the treatment of Aaron Schwarz was wrong and I think he probably took that very seriously and very much to heart), he rages against injustice and cruelty (like the way the disabled get treated in the UK with benefit cuts and hideous assessments), gets incredibly upset about things he has no power over and just generally is desperate to make the world a better place. The issue is that he possibly views the ethical right as far far more important than the legal right. That's why if there is a case against him then it should happen in the UK where the trial will be fair and just, and after it all, be helped to use his skills in legal, beneficial ways instead of being locked away for the rest of his life, being no use to anyone. 99 years is insane, not even rapists get that much in the US.

*Not really I wouldn't be very happy for some one to rob me to show me hie unsafe I am it's horse shit

If you want to help a comapy sort there security fill in a bloody job application for the it dep like every one else*

The companies ask them to do this...its quite a thing these days.

news.sky.com/story/nhs-patients-being-put-at-risk-because-of-cybersecurity-flaws-10657537

This is important work, to make the NHS more secure so patients' private information is not at risk.

GuttedAboutBrother Wed

Then they sould gain the NHS permission before hand

And say let us help you

Any way I hope your not suggesting due to his talents he sould be immune to punishment

The Autistic people I've known convicted of possession of images of child abuse have has the same restrictions put on their Internet use as neurotypical offenders.

I heard the interview on R4 and thought the point she made was fair: if he did the crime then these are just the legal consequences.

It seems very unfair that the US authorities have not shared details of the charges with the accused prior to extradition.

What if the NHS said "No, we think our security is just fine" and patients' information continued to be at risk and someone with bad intentions hacked into it? Would you like that? Ethical hacking is necessary in today's world, for the good of everyone.

The problem with the R4 interview is that she repeatedly asked him prejudicial questions which would affect his right to a fair trial, trial by media is not right and can lead to miscarriages of justice.

The Autistic people I've known convicted of possession of images of child abuse have has the same restrictions put on their Internet use as neurotypical offenders Are you seriously comparing being in possession of images of child abuse to hacking that caused no damage?(The alleged damage was the revelation of shitty security which should have been fixed beforehand)

I haven't read anyone state that he should be immune to punishment.
Extradition and the possible jail sentence that could bring are extreme, and given his SN would be grossly unfair.

"Just beacuse you have SN dosent mean you don't know the difference between right and wrong"

Well, this is an interesting one. If you read back through the posts you'll see why you can't simply make a blanket statement like this. Each case must be assessed individually. SN can mean not knowing the difference between right and wrong, and ASD can make the lines between right and wrong very blurred indeed.

If the NHS said thanks but no thanks then you fuck off

You could leak the fact that the NHS or whoever didn't want help but really if Somone wants to padlock your bike and ypu say no then you fuck off and leave them to it

You don't take it upon yourself to hack there system also the US didn't ask or need his help they hack theses sites for the high just like burglers brake in to people's homes often to see if they can

If 10 year olds who know the difference between right and wrong can be held criminally responsible why can't he?
Maybe Lauri sees/saw himself as fighting for truth and freedom?
I have Asperger syndrome, for me and other Aspies I know, truth and standing up for what is right are powerful drivers.
However I'm quite an bit older than Lauri, I know about how dangerous it can be to get involved with agencies like the Fed, FBI etc. Not because it's the morally wrong thing to do but because I know how vicious they can be, I would never provoke them and open myself up to that danger.
Maybe Lauri thought what he was doing was right and just could not see the danger. Aspies are really not good at seeing the bigger picture. I'm older so I have a bit more of a clue.

Anyway I'm not a hacker, my obsession when I was in my teens to 20's were dogs and dog training.
It was pretty all consuming, competing and judging at the highest level with the likes of Mary Ray within a short time.
My reality check came when I bought another puppy. When the dog count hit 6 my mum had enough and chucked me out.
Lauri's came when the US authorities came for him. :(
Us Aspies can be poor at seeing the consequences of our actions .

Some say but Lauri has been recently diagnosed with Aspergers?
Well a lot of Aspies are diagnosed late. I was only diagnosed 2 years ago at the age of 45.
Simon Baron Cohen, an expert on Aspergers testified for Lauri in court, he would not put is reputation on the line for nothing.

As for the impact of on Lauri of extraditing him to the US?
I think it would be absolutely devastating for him based on my own experience of Aspergers.
My life is one of routine, change being very difficult eg I have had the same job for nearly 30 years.
Due to the malfunctioning of the autonomic nervous system which many Aspies have, I get into flight mode quick and get stuck there for abnormal length of time.
Everyday life is a struggle, when I'm really stressed I self harm by hitting and punching myself.
My world is small revolving around work and family, diversions from the norm being very stressful.
When I have been away from my routine I have suffered terrible panic attacks especially in situations where there is no escape or no perceived escape.
Could I imagine being forcibly taken from family and country? No it's too horrid to comprehend.

Gutted I am so sorry your brother is going through.
I hope his appeal is successful.
Maybe you could ask for a pardon from the president elect, he has expressed respect for the whistleblowers of wikileaks. A pardon for Julian Assange would be a hopeful sign.

Thisjustinno - are you really comparing Gutted's brother to a paedophile?! FFS

Thefishewife - he works for a company called Hacker House. That's his job. Your posts are crimes against SPAG but sadly no one has banned you from the internet.

I have to say, as a support worker for those with learning disabilities and autism, I agree with extraditing him. He understands right from wrong, if he didn't he would have been very confused when he first got into trouble.
If his capacity to understand is so severely diminished why was he allowed on a computer unsupervised?

If the NHS said thanks but no thanks then you fuck off. You could leak the fact that the NHS or whoever didn't want help

Great, so not only try to protect patients' information, but announce it to the world that the NHS doesn't want help giving all the criminals who love to sell that kind of information an invitation to do so. Good thing the NHS doesn't think the same way that you do. And I hope you never complain if your personal information is leaked as you are clearly against those leaks being plugged.

Maybe you could ask for a pardon from the president elect, he has expressed respect for the whistleblowers of wikileaks We've asked Obama, no response yet so I guess it is Trump next.

*Today 10:25 Thisjustinno

The Autistic people I've known convicted of possession of images of child abuse have has the same restrictions put on their Internet use as neurotypical offenders.

Just out of interest, how many do you 'know'?
How unusual.

Thefishewife - read Auti's post just above yours, it explains it well.

Right and wrong isn't a black and white concept, and as such is a confusing thing. Like Auti said, he may have strongly believed that what he was doing was ethically right.

He didn't join Hacker House until after the allegations.

JCo24 As a support worker for people with autism surely you'd realise how extremely negative for their health (to an extreme degree) it would be to tear them away from their support network.