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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be furious the teacher told my ten year old she stinks?

289 replies

madsymads · 14/11/2016 18:14

Family meal yesterday at an Indian restaurant. Might have been a bit heavy on garlic and spices.

DD was quiet when I picked her up today (she had been to after school club) and then suddenly started crying. I of course asked what was wrong and she said that this morning she had gone up to her teachers desk to ask something and the teacher (DD demonstrated) pulled a face and said 'ew, go and sit down, get away from me. What have you eaten? It smells awful.'

Obviously this led to quite a lot of unkind comments all day.

Completely inappropriate. Or AIBU?

OP posts:
derxa · 15/11/2016 08:52

Why would that annoy you Dexra? Because it's irrelevant. The issue is that the teacher has made an unacceptable comment and that needs to be addressed by the OP.

ChocolateWombat · 15/11/2016 08:52

I don't think people are defending the teacher. What she said (and exactly what she said needs to be clarified) was not okay.

However, the thing that some people on this thread seem to struggle with, it the the making judgements about shades of grey. It is not okay to say personal things to a child, that make them feel bad, even if they are said as an off the cuff, passing comment which wasn't intended to hurt. However, there are lots of other things which are are not okay too and are certainly more serious......as well as less serious. As parents we then have to make judgements about which ones we react to and take action over, and which we don't. There is lots of rudeness in society and lots of thug s that happen to children that can make them feel a bit small and uncomfortable - none of it is okay, but as parents are we going to get angry and take action about every example of it? I guess this is where my question lies - it's not about saying what the teacher did was right, but challenging what we do about thes things.
Sometimes it is right to feel really cross and get involved.......and sometimes, it quite simply is t the best thing to do.....and it's making the judgement about the difference which is important. And making that distinction between rudeness or things that happen that are best acknowledged as not okay, but then quickly moved on from with no further action, and those that need action is something we want to teach our children too. That is part of what resilience is. It's not about condoning bad behaviour or accepting bullying, but about learning to cope when things go wrong, getting back up and carrying on stronger. It is possible for DD in this scenario to do all those things.

So my Q to parents is, when you hear that your child feels upset or is disappointed by something that has happened, how do you decide whether to get furious and get involved, or to just acknowledge it and help the child move on?

There are def times when as a parent we absolutely should get involved....and this helps out child, but I also believe that if we ALWAYS feel furious for our child and ALWAYS wade in, this doesn't help them - it teaches them that always reacting is the right thing to do, to expect conflict and intervention, feeling furious should be a commonplace,mrather than rare event, and that everything is a big deal....rather than acknowledging that often, simply acknowledging someone is rude or wrong or disappointing is enough and you can then move on, is best because it allows you to get over the thing quickly without it becoming a huge deal that affects you for ages.

So parents, which kind of upsets, disappointments and slights can you acknowledge and move on from quickly, and which are you absolutely sure need involvement and which are more grey areas? All complicated of course, by the fact that child reporting of events, whilst rarely being lies is often not fully accurate too....and that also needs to affect the way we react, at least in the first instance.

JassyRadlett · 15/11/2016 09:04

Upsetting your DD wasn't very nice, but neither is being made to feel ill by someone elses bad breath/body odour etc. The teacher could have been more tactful in how SHE dealt with it, but i don't think you can blame her for the other childrens reactions.

You absolutely can. Instead of doing her job to prevent bullying, she legitimised it by modelling exactly the same behaviour to the children.

DoinItFine · 15/11/2016 09:11

The last time you told a client they stank when they sat next to you at a meeting full of clients who overheard, how did that go for you?

Did your boss say "oh, it's not ideal, but we live in a rude world so insulting my clients is not worth making a big deal of"?

My responses to this thread are from the perspective of a teacher.

Teachers don't get to make off the cuff, passing comments about children.

It is you who is failing to see the massive boundary that has been crossed here in a teacher making rude oersonal comments about a child in their class

A comment of the sirt the teacger is meant to ge dussuading the children from making about one another

This is absolutely the kind of situation - a teacher abusing their position if influence to bulky and humiliate children that a parent shoukd maje a big deal of.

And not just the parents if the victim.
.
If I heard this had happened in my child's class to another child, I would be making my enquirues and then talking to the head.

I wouldn't want my children in a classroom where this kind of behsviour was veung modelled by the teacher.

I would expect it to be taken very seriously.

ZoeTurtle · 15/11/2016 09:16

Thank you DoinItFine for the voice of reason!

JassyRadlett · 15/11/2016 09:20

you can't expect people not to say "can you move away from me" if the smell is bothering them.

I'm trying to think of any professional situation where that would be acceptable.

I would have thought one of the requirements of all teachers is a modicum of self-control.

SuburbanRhonda · 15/11/2016 09:29

On MN there are always a cohort of people waiting to rabidly defend anything a teacher does, no matter how unprofessional or horrible it is.

There is also a group of posters, many of us who work in schools, who always prefer to reserve judgement until both sides of the story have been heard. It's what we do when a child tells us about something they say another child has done, and is what parents would expect us to do in the name of fairness.

What we wouldn't do is start throwing around claims of abuse and bullying before we'd even had the chance to speak to the other child.

DoinItFine · 15/11/2016 09:42

There are people on this thread defending the teacher even if the account is 100% true.

And if it is, then the teacher is a bully.

SuburbanRhonda · 15/11/2016 09:49

There are people on this thread saying the teacher is guilty of abuse, before the full story is even known.

And bullying, as I've said upthread, is repeated over time. A one-off incident, unkind or unprofessional though it may be if it happened, is not bullying.

Megainstant · 15/11/2016 09:54

Of course its not bullying.

If it indeed happened as the OP said it was insensitive and intolerant and I would imagine the teacher isn't quite in the right profession. But NOT bullying.

Not everything that upsets a child is bullying.

DoinItFine · 15/11/2016 09:56

Bullying does not have tonhappen over time, although it often does.

One incident of public humiliation and using your social influence to dominate is an incident of bullying.

Megainstant · 15/11/2016 09:57

using your social influence to dominate??

surely all teachers have to and should do this??

DoinItFine · 15/11/2016 10:01

surely all teachers have to and should do this??

Um no.

A teacher uses their influence to lead.

There is no need to dominate a class if yiu are competent.

If you are resorting to tactics that involve humiliation, then you are a bully.

Megainstant · 15/11/2016 10:03

It doesn't sound tactical in the slightest

It sounds like a stupid off the cuff remark

She's probably 22 and in her first job

I am sorry the OPs dd was upset but the rabid tone of the posts are more shocking.

I can well imagine that none of the people encouraging the OP to go in a denounce the teacher as a bully would do the same thing if it happened to them. Keyboard warriors!

BobGoblin23 · 15/11/2016 10:08

Shouldn't a teacher be more aware of smells and children? In terms of safeguarding and spotting consistently poor hygiene (as potentially a sign of something not right at home). There should have been more empathy and an ability to deal with that situation as a grown up. If we get served by a stinky teenager at Asda, I don't say anything. Only to OH afterwards! Does the teacher have no social awareness or filter??

Trifleorbust · 15/11/2016 10:10

I am not trying to defend the teacher as such. I just think the reaction here is a little extreme and, if I'm honest, I think it is silly to be so condemnatory before seeking her side of the story. The wording in the OP is certainly inappropriate. I would be interested to know what the teacher says when you put that exact wording in front of her and give her a chance to confirm or deny that she said precisely those words, and in what context. You may find there are two sides to every story.

DoinItFine · 15/11/2016 10:12

I first worked as a volunteer in a primary school when I was a teenager.

I would have been sent home if I had told any of the children they were smelly (many of them were).

Nobody even had to tell me that.

Because it is so obvious.

No trained teacher has any excuse.

And in real life I wouod absolutely be dealing with this as an extremely serious incident.

SuburbanRhonda · 15/11/2016 10:13

Bullying does not have tonhappen over time, although it often does.

One incident of public humiliation and using your social influence to dominate is an incident of bullying.

The Anti-Bullying Alliance defines bullying as:

"the repetitive, intentional hurting of one person or group by another person or group, where the relationship involves an imbalance of power."

HTH

Trifleorbust · 15/11/2016 10:15

In most of the schools I have worked in, once it had been established that a conversation like this took place, this would be dealt with as a one-off inappropriate comment that required a reminder of how careful you have to be with children and their feelings - probably a conversation with your manager. Not an 'extremely serious incident'. An 'extremely serious incident' is a clear breach of safeguarding procedures. Don't over-react.

Jiggl · 15/11/2016 10:19

When I was 6, my teacher took a dislike to me and made snide remarks and would make fun of me if I got an answer wrong. (back in the 80's so they got away with a lot more) And it's only reading this thread now that I realise that her behaviour she modelled towards me triggered the chronic bullying by my classmates daily for the next 6 years.

This in turn affected my learning, my emotional development, as a teen and an adult I had low self esteem, anxiety, and chose poor relationship partners. Finally in my thirties I worked on my issues and it's in the past now, but the legacy of the damage done by that bullying shaped my life.

So it is bullying. And I do think that you are right to ask the school and the teacher what really happened.

SuburbanRhonda · 15/11/2016 10:22

jiggl

Your experience may have led to bullying by your classmates and if the teacher made repeated, nasty comments to you over time it's likely they bullied you too. But that's completely different to what's being discussed on this thread.

VinoTime · 15/11/2016 10:22

It is rare for teachers to bully and humiliate children in class these days

Ha! I had to move my 6yo DD to a different school 3 years ago after we found out the reason my bubbly, happy, confident child had become so quiet, withdrawn and anxious was because her teacher had been bullying her on a daily basis. Saying nasty comments about her, humiliating her in front of the class, excluding her from class projects, constantly sending her out of the class, stopping her from having any breaks, not helping her when she became stuck with work, shouting at her for no reason, calling her stupid - I've got a list as long as my bloody arm!

I took it all the way and the teacher was eventually suspended. The head teacher was also subject to an investigation for not intervening. Apparently, she thought my DD was constantly out of class and being punished for being 'naughty', though there are no records of said 'naughty' behaviour. Because it was all fabricated. DD is the sweetest, kindest child in the world and has never been in trouble with any school or teacher for bad behaviour ever. It took DD's new school nearly two years of constant work and alternative therapies/strategies to untangle the gigantic knot that woman made of my child. She was an utter mess.

There are many wonderful teachers in this world. Unfortunately, there are some truly rotten ones out there as well. Teaching is like any other caring profession - not every person doing it should be.

DoinItFine · 15/11/2016 10:24

The Anti-Bullying Alliace has not been designated worldwide designator of what bullying is.

HTH

If this happened as described, then it is a safeguarding issue.

I would be concerned about children in a classroom with someone who wouod harm them in this way.

ZoeTurtle · 15/11/2016 10:24

SuburbanRhonda I don't know what you thought you were replying to. There are people defending the words in the OP - NOT saying 'maybe that's not what happened' but saying 'it's not a big deal that the teacher said that.'

HTH

SuburbanRhonda · 15/11/2016 10:24

vino

And your experience sounds like bullying too. But again, completely different from the OP.

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