To be furious the teacher told my ten year old she stinks?

[madsymads]

Family meal yesterday at an Indian restaurant. Might have been a bit heavy on garlic and spices.

DD was quiet when I picked her up today (she had been to after school club) and then suddenly started crying. I of course asked what was wrong and she said that this morning she had gone up to her teachers desk to ask something and the teacher (DD demonstrated) pulled a face and said 'ew, go and sit down, get away from me. What have you eaten? It smells awful.'

Obviously this led to quite a lot of unkind comments all day.

Completely inappropriate. Or AIBU?

Doinit, you say that the teacher shouldn't be in the classroom.

Do you really feel qualified to make that judgement base on the info we have here? We have the report of a mother who used the word 'stinky' in the thread title, but quite different words in the thread. She didn't hear the teacher comments herself, but is reporting what her child told her and as numerous people in this thread mention, children are not always the most accurate reporters of events.....not because they are liars or are lying, but because the way they remember things or see them sn't always entirely I accurate.

We also have no evidence at all that this was part of an unpleasant campaign against the child or anything other than an off the cuff response, which whilst I'll judged, insensitive and rude was not malicious. And we don't know anything about the tone or the context. In fact there is loads we don't know.
If someone makes one foolish comment in their work situation, does this really mean they shouldn't be able to do their job any more? Is it evidence that they are incapable or cruel or a bully or abusive?

No one is saying it Was the right thing to say or justifying it, but the leaps people make from the very limited information we have in terms of pronouncing judgement on this teacher as abusive or a bully astound me. And the suggestions people make that she should not be allowed to teach again or be in the classroom, or that parents wouldn't allow their children to be taught by her make my mind boggle.
It was wrong to say it. Yes, she is a teacher and needs to be careful what she says and said something she shouldn't. Haven't we all done that at one time or another....perhaps at work, or to family, or even to children if we work with them. Does one error of judgement (the specifics of which aren't even confirmed yet) warrant the reaction seen here, which I can only describe as a knee jerk reaction to half a story.

DOinit, 'her superiors should be aware of her complete lack of judgment, professionalism, kindness'

Well.....yes, if there was evidence of this.

However, we have possible evidence of a one off comment that was made. I don't think I could make the leap from one off the cuff remark, to conclude this teacher persistently shows a lack of judgement, or that she is an unprofessional teacher or never shows kindness. This is what I mean about people making leaps based on very limited evidence.

Again, the comment wasn't right. However, that teacher might be extremely professional and kind and there might be very many parents and children at that school who would testify to that. She might actually be known for her good judgements in many cases......we simply don't know. All we have is a semi-report which the OP hasn't been able to confirm or deny yet about one comment that person made on one day. I really wouldn't want to pass judgement on and their suitability for a career, or the teaching of my children, based on such very very limited evidence. I'd prefer to get a fuller rounded picture of them before making such a judgement. And because us on MN will never know about that teacher fully and her good and bad points over a period of time, we will never be in a position to accurately say she shouldn't work with children, based on what we have been told here.

Perhaps the OP will return with an update. Perhaps she will have had a conversation with the teacher and report back to confirm that yes, her DD did accurately report the exact words of what the teacher said...and that in their meeting the teacher was unrepentant and horrible. Or perhaps we will hear that something was said (we might get the exact words) and hear about the context and the tone, which puts a different light on events....and hear that the teacher was mortified to hear how her words had been interpreted? Perhaps we will hear that the teacher acknowledges what she said was insensitive and how sorry she is and that she will speak to the DC about it? Perhaps we will hear that OP says it all turned out to be a big confusion and there's nothing really to report. We don't know. We might get the information or we might not. But I'd put money on whatever comes out that it's not as sensational as some people on this thread might like and actually the words bullying, abusive or that teacher should never be in the classroom again, won't be forthcoming and that actually, things turn out to be much less serious than some people have thought and that understanding exactly what was said, context and tone, puts quite a different light on events.....as is often the case.

A teacher who actually told a child, within earshot of the class, to get away from them because they smelled so bad, has no business being in a classroom.

I find it hard to imagine that happened, because it woukd be so egregious and wrong if it had.

But if that was the truth of the situation, then that teacher is not fit to be in a classrooom.

You don't get a certain numbers of times to be cruel before you are msde to stop.

People with a tendency to emotional cruelty should not be teachers.

Or ideally anything.

You'd have to be a really mean bitch to say something like that to a child.

And in front of other children!

Fucking hell.

So nasty.

doin

You need to calm down until the OP comes back and tells us what happened.

You're acting as if she already has.

Lol

People who work in schools who think they are always The Boss are hilarious.

Also people who work in schools and don't understand conditional.statements.

Er ... ok, doin

YANBU

Maybe she was hungover...
Some people with personality disorders go into teaching so they have 30 minions under their control. I used to be a teacher and have worked with some utter arseholes. Teachers not children, although...

You're acting as if she already has.

No - she's using the conditional. And the words 'if that was the truth of the situation'.

Adults telling other adults they 'need' to calm down (or do anything in a non-emergency situations, really) comes across really strangely to my ears, as if it's an attempt to assert authority. I see it increasingly, and I'm interested to know the thinking behind it - I'm happy to hear there's a different motivation, it's just a phrase I can't imagine myself using.

JassyRadlett

I see it increasingly, and I'm interested to know the thinking behind it

I take it that you have never been in a situation where another adult has behaved in a verbally or physically threatening manner to you.

If the OP were to face the teacher in an angry and confrontational manner she would first e asked to calm down, then reported and removed form the premises if she didn't.

I certainly wouldn't have a meeting with a parent who was acting in such a manner.

I appreciate that doin was posting in the conditional. And I know that posting that she needed to calm down would cause a stir. I probably shouldn't have used that phrase. But the language in her posts was getting more and more extreme and it all seemed so pointless, based on conjecture and no update from the OP. It's why I responded to the poster who says that if the OP had been from a culture that routinely eats spicy food, the comment would have been racist. People can extrapolate from the OP until they're blue in the face but until we hear from the OP to me there seems no point getting worked up over a situation that might never have occurred.

But maybe you're right and I should have just let doin carry on posting about how awful it all would have been if this incident had actually happened. In fact, I think that's what I'll do.

And I didn't mean "let" as in "allow" before anyone else pounces. I meant I won't reply to her posts.

Posting on MN is usually pointless.

It's what I do when I want a break from doing one of the hundreds of pointful things I have to do every day.

I'll decide how much of my own time to waste posting here, thanks all the same.

I'm struggling to see how bossing people around on a forum is a better use of time than pontificating about hypothetical situations.

I suppose it depends on how much you enjoy being bossy versus how much you like to pontificate.

DOinit, are you now saying you doubt that the teacher said this? I had the impression that you were pretty sure about it.

Are you saying that if the words reported by the OP turn out to be accurate, even without knowing anything about that teacher or the context or the tone or anything.....that she is a person with a tendency to cruelty, a mean bitch and should never be in the class again? Just how can you reach so extreme a conclusion and judgement based on one phrase (even if it actually was said). I'd imagine you've said some things in your life, as I have too, which if taken in isolation and out of context could show me in a bad light......but I would hope people wouldn't do that, but would look at the bigger picture and make sure they had sufficient information before making such extreme judgements.

Fortunately, if the OP decides she needs to report this matter to the Head (and for all the reasons I've given before, I really don't think there is a need - there is no pattern of such comments and as the OP has made contact with the teacher, I feel pretty confident an explanation will be given and everyone will move forwards, with acknowledgement of insensitivity by the teacher,if there was insensitivity) I can say that the reaction of the Head and anyone else involved WONT be like Doinits. The Head won't decide that the teacher clearly is emotionally cruel as a person, based on one comment, or that she must be a mean bitch, or that she should never be in the classroom again. Fortunately a Head would investigate and gather the facts. If necessary, the Head would probably have a conversation with the teacher about the need to be careful in what she says...and the teacher would probably whole heartedly agree - because there has never been any evidence of the comment being malicious, but an off the cuff comment that was ill-judged, and the thought that she had hurt someone's feelings would probably make her feel sorry. In most cases that teacher would offer and willingly apologise to the girl - there would be no need to force it to happen, because most teachers will be sorry about unintentionally causing upset. And then the Head would remember too that this teacher has always been professional and known as kind (assuming they are the usual teacher - and nothing the OP says suggests a wider, broader pattern of such comments to her child) and simply know through years of experience of dealing with staff and children, that these things happen to even the best of people and teachers....and move on.
In all likelihood, that teacher made an ill judged, off the cuff comment and had no intention at all to cause hurt or embarrassment...and when they realise they did, will feel mortified and happily apologise. If she had realised herself, she probably would have apologised immediately. However, in a busy school day, where 100 things are going on at once and loads of things said to loads of people, it could be quite easy to say something wrong occasionally. It doesn't make it right.....but it doesn't make her a mean bitch, or someone with a tendency to cruelty.....sure
Y everyone can see that those judgements are a massive leap from the very scant information we actually have.

I take it that you have never been in a situation where another adult has behaved in a verbally or physically threatening manner to you.

I would tend to class that as an emergency situation, tbh.

If the OP were to face the teacher in an angry and confrontational manner she would first e asked to calm down, then reported and removed form the premises if she didn't.

Indeed. I don't think it applies to DoinIt posting on MN, though, does it? Rhonda may feel differently, of course.

Um, that's what I've said all along.

I even got a bollocking from the OP for it.

Your "impression" can only have come about through an inability or unwillingness to read what I have written.

An unwillingness I am extending to myself reading the rest of your long post.

But maybe you're right and I should have just let doin carry on posting about how awful it all would have been if this incident had actually happened. In fact, I think that's what I'll do.

Up to you, but that's certainly not what I was suggesting so no question of me being 'right'. It just felt like an odd way to respond, rather than to the actual substance of what she said, which is why I queried it.

Actually, Boney, thinking more carefully about the sort of situations you describe I think using 'you need to' language wouldn't be what I'd chose as I think it could risk inflaming the situation further. Depending on the situation I'd tend to use 'if you don't stop doing x, I am going to do y' sort of formulations, I've always been advised to take that sort of approach to de-escalating tense situations but perhaps that's incorrect/out of date.

(And apologies for multiple posts, terrible etiquette.)

JassyRadlett

Its just another day in most schools.

and tbh, people getting worked up about posts on a forum really need to calm down.

JassyRadlett

Both could cause the situation to escalate.

I agree that it's just another day in most schools.

Some schools often get parents coming in who are furious about the terrible treatment their child has reported. They come in to shout the odds and demand action is taken against the emotionally cruel and mean bitch who should never be allowed in the classroom again.

The Head sighs and spends half their morning gathering information by speaking to a number of people, which involves disrupting lots of classes. I most cases then The Head rings the parents or asks them to come in and explains what actually happened - the context and background leading up to events, the tone etc. They point out that either events were not quite as described by child or that the child's reaction to events is surprising and that the teacher never intended to cause upset and are sorry if their comment caused it. Sometimes the furious parent remains furious and convinced the school is covering up and that teacher hates their child. Often, they are a little bit surprised and go home to speak to child about what has been said and ask why they didn't give all of the information or report events in that particular way. Occasionally a Head does find that something has been going on that is part of a bigger pattern and that teacher actually is a mean bitch and emotionally cruel.....and the. Takes action. It is unusual though and i can't see anything in Ops post to suggest cruelty.

Yes...another day in schools....responding to knee jerk reactions.

And for my final post, I just want to say again that whatever was said by the teacher wasn't right, and shouldn't have been said. I am sorry the girl had to hear it and for the hurt it caused her. I hope she is able to move on from it quickly and I believe the mothers proportional response can help her do that.

I also think that the teacher was probably ill judged in her comment and not malicious. It was a foolish thought that was spoken out loud. I don't think it makes her a cruel person or someone unfit to teach, or someone who deserves to be subjected to disciplinary procedures or who will be. If she knew the effect of her comment, I feel fairly sure she would feel upset and very willingly apologise because there is nothing to suggest cruelty or more than a foolish slip of the tongue.

Today 20:55 BoneyBackJefferson
Its just another day in most schools.

Alongside lots and lots of other workplaces, hence my interest. Schools aren't unique in having abusive or violent service users or customers.

and tbh, people getting worked up about posts on a forum really need to calm down.

Well, no, that's the point. They get to decide whether (a) they're worked up in the first place and (b) want to calm down. Because, adult who can make those choices for themselves.

Both could cause the situation to escalate.

Interesting, can you share some of the advice/guidance? It's relevant to my work.

JassyRadlett

I haven't said that Schools are unique in having abusive or violent service users or customers.

But one of the main differences is that you are dealing with someone who is dealing with second hand information, and not all the facts.

can you share some of the advice/guidance? It's relevant to my work.

I suspect that it is the same as you already do, keep calm, assess and listen to the issues and explain.

They get to decide whether (a) they're worked up in the first place and (b) want to calm down. Because, adult who can make those choices for themselves.

Yes as an adult they can decide to get worked up and offended by strangers on the internet. But really what is the point.