To not punish my daughter for answering honestly/telling the truth (Father Christmas related)

[iProcrastinate]

To cut a long story short! My DD(7.5) hasn't believed in Father Christmas for a couple of years, we never made a big deal about this and I just let her make her own mind up. We still do a Santa letter, and leave out a mince pie with the stocking, that's tradition; and you'll struggle to find a kid who loves Christmas as much as she does! I won't bore you with why we don't make a big deal over it!

DD is under strict instructions NOT to go around telling other children that he isn't real. I don't think that she would, But she has also been taught that to lie is wrong......

So DD and her class have recently moved into Yr3 at school, so they share a play ground with the older kids. DD and a friend of hers were asked, by an older child, do they think Father Christmas is real. DD answered no. That night I got a furious message from the mother of the friend, saying that DD could have 'ruined their Christmases', but fortunately she has managed to 'repair the damage', and could I reprimand DD. I apologised but said that I would speak to her about this but not punish her. She answered honestly.

AIBU not to punish her? At what age do kids start questioning the Father Christmas thing? Surely it must be a hot topic of conversation at this age? DD can't be the only 7yr old out there who doesn't believe.

YANBU. Isn't 7-8 normal age to stop believing?

FWIW I pretended to my parents for ages that I thought he was real, till they started telling me it was them, and I pretended to refuse to believe them, to the extent that I still get a stocking when I stay at theirs at Christmas.

What I mean is, believing in childrens' belief in Santa is important to parents. I don't think the kids particularly care all that much!

I found out about FC about that age because DM forgot to take the labels off the presents and I didn't believe he shopped at Woolies.

My DD is 5 and thanks to school assemblies we've already had the 'if god created the world in 7 days where did the dinosaurs come from?' questioning. Like other posters have said all she had to do was say that some people believe and some people don't. That woman needs to grow up herself, there'll be worse things her DC learns from other children in the playground.

Ffs, people need to get a grip, there are a lot more to life than trying to enforce a false belief. Really you wonder whose Christmas is actually being ruined, the child's or the parents. There are bigger problems, think about the children who get nothing for Christmas

My son was told in yr1 by one of his friends that Father Christmas wasn't real. We just said that some people believe different things and that didn't make him or his friend wrong. YANBU and I wouldn't punish my son for being truthful

Totally bemused by some people on this thread. The level of entitlement is unreal - as Bertrand said, expecting a 7yo to have the emotional maturity and discretion to think of a white lie on the fly.

So, if your DD had been asked by someone if she believed in God, in the hearing of a child whose parents were devout Christians, should she say 'yes'? Because otherwise the child would have her religious belief ruined?

What if she were asked about evolution in front of a creationist child?

Surely, it is up to parents to say 'some people don't believe in God/ Santa/ whatever'. So that when someone says it's not real they just think 'Ah, that person doesn't believe/ celebrate Christmas - I'm so happy Santa comes to our house still!'

This is so silly, your daughter did nothing wrong at all!

We have the not believing this year, my youngest two are 7 and 9yrs old.
My 9yr old hasn't really believed in Santa for a couple of years. She did play along a bit at home for her sister.
7yr old started junior school in September and the talk in the playground at the minute is that he isn't real!
I just told her that not everyone believes and that's ok, but if she wants to think he's real that's fine too.
She said no, but I still expect to have two very excited little girls waiting for 'santa' on Christmas Eve!

Your daughter is still so young and simply answered honestly to a question put to her. The other Mum really shouldn't have messaged you. All children have different beliefs due to custom, religion etc. She needs to get over it and understand children talk.

It's all ridiculous commercial rubbish.

Yes, I think that the sanctimonious 'OH, LETS KEEP THE MAGIC, SILENCE YOUR PRECOCIOUS LITTLE SHITS!!!' people who invariably pop up on these threads annually need to bear in mind that Father Christmas is essentially a capitalist/consumerist 'tradition'. I realise that in some households FC only brings a stocking and larger presents are from parents and relatives/ or FC delivers what parents have bought, but in many households, FC brings all the swag - which means (as seen on a recent Mn thread by a mother who was trying to juggle Christmas presents for three children on a shoestring) that it's very difficult to tell a small child that in fact FC 'can't afford' the present they've set their heart on.

In a nutshell, it's in toy shops' and manufacturers' best interests for the myth of FC to continue as long as possible.We're encouraged every year to keep literally buying in to that. The 'magic' has a sound commercial underpinning.

1. WTF?!??!?!? FATHER CHRISTMAS ISN'T REAL? YOU HAVE RUINED MY LIFE!!!!

1. This is really weird. When I was little, only 3 and 4 year olds believed in Father Christmas. Do children really still believe in it that late now? And ... what happens, if some children are going to naturally work it out sooner than others? Are they going to have be sent into quarantine and never have contact with their friends again? Or are all children in a given school year beaten into believing, or pretending to believe, until an arbitrary date when the are allowed to pass into the ranks of the unbelieving?

1. Not believing in FC doesn't ruin Christmas. It is lovely to wake up to a stocking knowing that your lovely mummy lovingly packed all these lovely things up for you. Bonkers.

1. when I was little, FC had nothing to do with being naughty or not. Certainly not in our house, or my friends' houses. I know it must have been a thing because of the song that has "naughty or nice", but I see that as being a more US thing. I hate the idea that children are supposed to have the spectre of losing their Christmas presents hanging over them all through Advent. I guess my parents' religion might have something to do with this... they genuinely celebrate the birthday of Jesus as a happy occasion, and Jesus came for all sinners - there is no way you can get yourself struck off the list no matter how much tangerine peel you shove down the side of your bed instead of getting up and putting it in the bin. (serious sins, people. Serious stuff.)

Does anyone else remember this "be good or FC won't come" crap?

My 8 year old definitely still believes and I don't think that's unreasonable. He finished his letter on Sunday and was really upset on Sunday evening when I told him it had gone to FC (it hadn't DH had taken it to start shopping and put ticks next to what he'd bought so couldn't give him it back!) because he had an amendment to make (!)

My 10 year old is very stoic and sensible, I have no idea if he still believes.

As for the OP - definitely YANBU. I am not going to go out of my way to 'have the chat' nor am I going to be upset if, at this time in my two DSs lives, someone lets slip. They have to find out at some point!

OP and your child, you are right. You are also kind, as you try to remind your daughter not to say because others still believe the stupid lies their parents have told them about Father Christmas. As you have found, you can play the game and enjoy Christmas without having to believe such rubbish. The ones at fault are those who maintain such a foolish pretence.

they have rights too. It's Santa, ffs. Get a grip.

YANBU in the slightest OP. Something is going wrong in the way Christmas is being celebrated if the children not believing that Santa actually is a real person that flies around the world in a night ruins the "magic" of the day. Do they avoid all Christmas films so that questions about the inconsistencies in how Santa works don't come up, or do they pick a film and only let the DC watch that one so that they can maintain the Elf/Arthur Christmas/The Santa Clause version of how it works?

My DS is 4 and believes in Santa, but it's never made out to be the be-all and end-all of Christmas. My parents still talk about Santa visiting/what we're getting from Santa and none of us have "believed" in Santa for at least 15 years, and even then, it was never a disaster when we cottoned on.

I believe I have encountered these type of mothers.
When my eldest was in nursery, there was a lot of muttering because I was overheard warning the teacher that as we don't celebrate christmas (because we're pagan, we celebrate the winter solstice), they needed to be careful that my son didn't mention his lack of belief in "certain associated large red jolly men with long white beards and some rather talented antlered pets"

(I did tell him that it would be very rude to tell the other children that what they believed was not real)

2 days later I heard someone say that "if HER (my) little shit tells my fucking kids there's no santa I'll hit the little bastard"
charming.
I replied that if anyone hit my child I'd have them arrested for it.
My boy never has spoiled it for any of the kids in his class.

Most nursery age kids will have a firm belief and will take no notice of anyone saying differently anyway. The kids in his class just accepted that he doesn't do christmas nor santa and that was that. If the child of the weird woman who text the OP had her belief shattered by the OP's kid's lack of belief then it wasn't a strong faith in the first place, so she was already doubting.

I feel people are getting this the wrong way round.

It's only in the last 20 odd years that we've had the "keep the Xmas magic" crap.

When I was a kid in the 70s, only the really young ones actually believed, the rest of us knew he wasn't real. The magic came from keeping family traditions and having fun. My memories are all about spending time with family, not about Santa. Santa is only a means to an end after all, the end being presents.

You are totally NBU! She answered a question honestly, there wasn't any other way for that to go for her

"The magic came from keeping family traditions and having fun. My memories are all about spending time with family, not about Santa. Santa is only a means to an end after all, the end being presents."

Yes.
the whole thing has become so over-wrought that it struggles to be "magic" enough to justify the expense and effort without this intensity of forcing belief in nonsense.

People used to leave work at half day on Christmas Eve and buy their presents. Then you had two days off, lots to eat and drink and your family around you. This insane thing where people are wrapping things up in November is bound to drive some insanity.

Isn't 7-8 normal age to stop believing?

An previous boss of mine’s son believed in Santa until the Christmas before he went to secondary school (he turned 12 the following March!). She was so, so pleased that they got to “keep the magic” for so long and I silently felt embarrassed for the kid.

for me the magic of Christmas that is now missing (not entirely missing, but not the same) consists of the inevitability of being an adult.

When I was a child I had few responsibilities for Christmas and I enjoyed them (I loved buying presents for my family, decorating the tree and the house, going to Mass, laying the table, going carol singing etc - all fun, easy stuff). Now I have to buy food, booze, cook, budget, drive, pack, get all my work done in order to take enough annual leave, etc - there is just more to do, and more boring stuff to do. It's crushing getting to the end of the year and trying to get it all done, and it leaves me a wreck for xmas itself.

I have to wake up earlier than I would like and feel tired all day (small children; often also bf-ing during the night)

None of the treadmill of being responsible for small dcs goes away at xmas.

Either I have to take the lonely responsibility of just being our little family (with a rather joyless and lazy dp) or I have to manage travel to somewhere quite far away where my children will sleep badly, or host and do everything for guests.

ExP doesn't get on brilliantly with my family, so there is that tension and I can't really relax if we are with them.

I would love the magic of xmas to come back but it has nothing to do with Father Christmas. It is to do with time off (a break from school, which was my only job at the time - no time off for mums), knowing exactly what I was supposed to do and that I was capable of it, being surrounded by uncomplicated love, and feeling unexaminedly well and healthy. All that has gone for ever

"believed in Santa until the Christmas before he went to secondary school (he turned 12 the following March!)"

this is bizarre. Most girls have breasts at this age. Weird.

Agree that too much effort is put into 'keeping the magic' alive these days. No wonder you get 11 yo still believing, when their parents have insisted he is real all their lives and have probably taken them to Lapland and followed Santa on Norad and seen 100 Christmas cartoons/movie all focused on Santa and Christmas!

I love santa and stockings and Christmas Traditions. But I try not to go on and on about Santa and 'the magic', I know the real magic is about much more than Santa bringing toys and so do most kids.

Better to find out at 7/8/9 by their own natural questioning/curiosity than be devastated to find out at 11 or 12!

Yes another 70s kid here and no kid belied past 6 I think and that was stretching things.

as for belivibg at 9!! Really beliving? Wow

It's only in the last 20 odd years that we've had the "keep the Xmas magic" crap
I'm 59 and it was around when I was a child. Mercifully, my parents had some common sense and I wasn't expected to believe in Father Christmas, though we played the game and everything was fine. My mother, often the subject of my resentful rants but she was right in this, was particularly determined that we should not think that presents came from a mysterious stranger, and that we should be certain that our behaviour would have no impact at all on whether or not we received our presents.

My dd last year aged 7 was told by a child Santa wasn't real. She discussed it with me and told me she believed. She's had the same discussion with another child and has once again confirmed her beliefs. My input in the conversation isn't that big TBH as I want her to come to her realisation in her own time.

Didn't realise I should be texting the parents about it.... madness.