To not punish my daughter for answering honestly/telling the truth (Father Christmas related)

[iProcrastinate]

To cut a long story short! My DD(7.5) hasn't believed in Father Christmas for a couple of years, we never made a big deal about this and I just let her make her own mind up. We still do a Santa letter, and leave out a mince pie with the stocking, that's tradition; and you'll struggle to find a kid who loves Christmas as much as she does! I won't bore you with why we don't make a big deal over it!

DD is under strict instructions NOT to go around telling other children that he isn't real. I don't think that she would, But she has also been taught that to lie is wrong......

So DD and her class have recently moved into Yr3 at school, so they share a play ground with the older kids. DD and a friend of hers were asked, by an older child, do they think Father Christmas is real. DD answered no. That night I got a furious message from the mother of the friend, saying that DD could have 'ruined their Christmases', but fortunately she has managed to 'repair the damage', and could I reprimand DD. I apologised but said that I would speak to her about this but not punish her. She answered honestly.

AIBU not to punish her? At what age do kids start questioning the Father Christmas thing? Surely it must be a hot topic of conversation at this age? DD can't be the only 7yr old out there who doesn't believe.

Don't apologise bert it was an fair enough question. I can answer from mu experience and am happy to share it.

I think it's a very good question actually when poverty is rife in the uk currently.

That's how kids find out the truth about Father Christmas - that's how I found out. The woman is ridiculous.

All of you with older children who believe- don't they wonder why he ignores poor children?

This was why my parents didn't persist in the myth when my brother and I started asking questions about Santa. We went to school with a lot of children who were less affluent than our family and we began to notice fairly early on that these children got considerably less from Santa than we did.

And what about the schools that do shoe boxes? Don't your children just say- " No need for that, Father Christmas will have it under controll"?

I had the same thought about the shoe boxes.

My older kids 9 & 7 asked about the shoeboxes. I made up some story but I think when they start to ask those questions the doubt is there. Last year my DS Said his friend was telling everyone his parents brought the gifts. But my Ds said to me I don't believe that cos there's no way you'd buy me all those toys :) I glossed over it. I was bit disappointed but that's life! However another mum did txt the mum of DS friend telling her to 'have a word' with her son. She's a friend of mine @ was mortified did tell her son to stop telling other kids but As I said to her you can't control what's said on the playground & kids of 8/9 WILL discuss these things. I suspect DS (9) knows this year But he is as excited as ever n hasn't said anything. I don't think he'll say it to us though as think he'd be afraid he'd get nothing lol

A child who 'still believes' is not 'thick' (nor any of the other nasty names they've been called on this thread).

My friends 11 yo old still genuinely believes. She is VERY academic, doing very well in a top private school. Excelling in critical thinking & science. But she ALSO believes in Santa & the tooth fairy. They aren't mutually exclusive.

I know because of conversations she has started, also we are very close, she will talk to me about anything & everything. When we were out the other day she was discussing something relatively expensive she'd really like for Christmas & I offered to buy it for her. She was very excited, but then after a bit said 'No it's ok, I'll ask Santa for it then you can save your money!' She will sometimes discuss how he can do it, where toys are made etc but if you don't rush to answer or let them answer themselves then it just rumbles on. She genuinely believes.

I was so pleased that no one let on last year as her parents took her to Santa's village (Finland/Lapland??) and she had the most amazing time. Of course she'd have enjoyed it anyway, but 'still believing' made it so much better.

OP. I wouldn't be annoyed with a child saying what they believe, if asked, but I'd be mightily fucked off if they set out to spoil it for others. Your DD answered honestly when being asked by an older child. She'd have probably been teased if she'd said she believed. Anyway, she said that SHE didn't believe he was real, she didn't run around the playground telling everyone they were thick & that Santa's not real, it's just your parents etc.

I'll be disappointed when my little mate knows he's not real, because it is magical & fun - and just genuinely lovely to believe that there's a Santa out there who brings you lovely things and makes toys for children. Having a belief in something nice being out there only lasts a few years. The reality of this utterly fucked up world we live it will take its place soon enough, why hurry it?

I would like o know exactly what OP's DD told her mother. If she told her mother that DD "says there's no FC" and omitted the fact that DD was responding to a question from an older child, then the friend's mother's response was understandable, if a bit OTT. We also don't know if after DD answered no, whether a conversation then ensued between DD and her friend. Surely the friend would have challenged DD re her denial of FC?

"My friends 11 yo old still genuinely believes. She is VERY academic, doing very well in a top private school. Excelling in critical thinking & science. But she ALSO believes in Santa & the tooth fairy. They aren't mutually exclusive."

How precisely are they not mutually exclusive?

I wouldn't punish your child at all. I'm shocked that she hasn't believed in santa since she was 5. It sounds like she still loves all the childhood traditions though.

I haven't rtft but I would fucking kill the person who tells my child that there is no Santa. I found out when I was about the same age as your DD, and I was sworn to secrecy by my parents and told that I would ruin Christmas if I ever divulged and I respected and understood that. I think that you should have spelled that out to your child, and anticipated such a situation arising. I can totally see where that parent is coming from.

An 11 year old does not believe in Santa. No way!

There is no Santa, Easter bunny, tooth fairy or God. There!

An 11 year old who fully believes in Santa excels in critical thinking?

So she reasoned:

-1 man is delivering a billion presents in a night
-If he could do it, he'd travel much faster than the speed of light
-Reindeer are flightless mammals
-Men don't fit through chimneys
-Rich kids wouldn't get more than poor ones if Santa watches conduct
-He wouldn't ignore Muslim children
-The sleigh would weigh several megatons
-He'd need a century to read one years' letters

and then she concluded Santa must be real?

And what about the schools that do shoe boxes?

Do you mean that hideous Operation Christmas Child shite? Least said about that bollocks the better. (Why the fuck don't schools research before they sign up to these things?!)

I haven't rtft but I would fucking kill the person who tells my child that there is no Santa. I found out when I was about the same age as your DD, and I was sworn to secrecy by my parents and told that I would ruin Christmas if I ever divulged and I respected and understood that. I think that you should have spelled that out to your child, and anticipated such a situation arising. I can totally see where that parent is coming from.

Ah. What a lovely and caring anecdote. Warms your heart. Such empathy.

My 7 year old stopped believing. YANBU.

Paxillin 😂😂

I'm not sure why a thread about a mother over reacting has turned into one with such unpleasantness about children in general.

Non-believers are precocious shits ffs and believers are either stupid or lying.

Some children have stronger imaginations/inner worlds than others and the wonderful thing about them is they choose when to use their critical thinking to fit that. It's not an indicator of intelligence, innocence or any of that bullshit.

It's an early lesson that not everyone agrees on what they believe/disbelieve but it's important not to be unkind about it.

But that's just adding yet another judgement about children, you are suggesting that children who believe in Santa have

• stronger imaginations/inner worlds than those that don't and
• that their ability to suspend their critical thinking in order to accommodate that belief is an additional sign that they are wonderful

Now of course we all think our children are wonderful, but your child is no more wonderful, no more capable of critical thought and no more imaginative than my children simply on the grounds that your children believed in Santa and mine did not

It's not a sign of imagination to believe something you are told by authority figures is true. I believed in the Christian god as a child, it never crossed my mind not to when my parents, church leaders and school teachers all told me that god was real. My imagination did not come into play and I don't think that small children's Santa belief is a matter of imagination either. It's only once they realise that Santa isn't real then 'let's pretend' comes into play.

I'm not talking about my children, DS1 is completely questioning Santa right now. DS2 isn't old enough take part.

To be honest, I did expect a defensive reply like yours and almost regretted my post when I sent it, but if you read not once did I say that children who do not believe lack imagination it's just different for every child. Some are deeper than others for certain things and that's what is wonderful.

I'm sorry if it seemed otherwise, of course your children are imaginative.

My comments on critical thinking were in response to those who have suggested that a child who believes isn't capable of it full stop simply because they believe in Santa.

And just for clarity by 'deeper', I don't mean that your children are not deep. I was referring to the belief in Santa.

This really is a minefield. :o

My deep imagination consisted of daydreams believing I was married to Elvis - For a 7-year-old in the mid-90s it was very odd.

Oops that was meant to be italics not strike out. I'm afraid I really don't understand your clarification. Some children turn a blind eye to the inconsistencies in the Santa story and that's wonderful. Why?

My girls believed until about 9-10 but there was lots of play ground speculation. My girls just thought the others were wrong! Totally odd to ask for a child to be punished!

Some children have stronger imaginations/inner worlds than others and the wonderful thing about them is they choose when to use their critical thinking to fit that" That's not how critical thinking works.

Believing in Santa doesn't mean a child is unable to be objective and form proper judgments about other things.

It's not one or the other.