To just stop looking after their child, even though they don't have childcare?

[Jackson99]

Hi all,

I'm currently looking after 1 girl, she's almost 8. I'm not here to sit and slate the child, so please don't think I'm doing that. I am a live in nanny - I was really excited about this tbh, 1 child who I got on really well with (when we went on days out just before she hired me)...

She wakes me up (the child) at 4 am every morning. Which is fine, if that's what she wants, that's fine. However, in our contract, I'm allowed to sleep until 7:30, but if she wakes me from 6:30 I have to play games with her, so that's fine, but therefore I don't want to be up at 4! When she's up at 4, she doesn't just make me once, she starts throwing things around the room, tbh even that isn't the end of the world, if I wasn't actually able to say don't do that. Whenever I say that, she cries to her mum and her mum has a go at me about not telling her off. Yet I'm then moaned at for there being a trashed room. If I leave, I won't be paid for the 2 weeks I've done (I'm paid monthly and they cover my food, etc. so I don't ever need the money but obviously I would while I was looking for a new job. However, I think it's worth losing the money tbh. It's such hard work. WWYD?

What happened this morning?
If my 8 and/or 6 year old came in at 4am they would be sent straight back to bed unless poorly or scared.
What a horrid time you are having :-(

Put under your door from the inside, remove at 6:30.

mammic Shall we just wait for the OP to come back? sounds as if she is very young and doesn't know her rights. If she's living out in the wilds of the south coast she may feel she can't complain, may be isolated and have no transport. She may not even have a contract. This is clearly early doors in her employment so suggesting she lays down the law to her new employers even when she's in the right may take a huge breath and commitment on her part - especially if they chuck her out without paying her - leaving her with nothing but expensive CCJs which for a month's work isn't worth it. Just saying.

YANBU - it sounds like a vile situation. If the child is waking at 4am every day then there are some major issues there. She's not a toddler. I think you can leave with a clear conscience.

It is not possible to be a good nanny if you are not allowed to discipline the child. Exactly how you discipline her should be agreed in advance with the parents, but certainly you should be able to tell her off.

This job is not going to work out, sorry, but it is the parents who are the real problem not the child. If they are aware she is up at 4am they should be apologising and offering solutions (eg lock). Currently they are treating you like a slave. There are lots of lovely nanny jobs out there, this is not one of them. Personally I would remind them that you are unavailable before 7.30, demand a lock be put on your door within 24 hrs, agree with them a strategy for dealing with bad behaviour, put up with the rest until payday then leave without notice. You aren't breaching the contract by leaving if they have already massively breached it (by forcing you to work 4 hrs extra a day).

It's her parents job to see to their own child when she wakes at 4am, that's if they are at home.Why can't they see to her during the early hours? Are they shift workers or work away from home?

Just placemarking for an update. Poor op, I hope you get sorted x

Unacceptable to not allow and encourage a nanny to 'be in control'. My view has always been when the nanny is on duty she's in charge. If the kids want something and I happen to be home they can't ask me, flip side is if they need to be told off I'm more than happy for the nanny to do it, I'll even support her in it. It is just unworkable otherwise. I love my kids to love the nanny but they need to respect her too and know that she holds just as much power as me. I don't think yr family understand the roles. They possibly very insecure, they may learn, maybe. My nanny lives in due to unpredictable working hours but if the kids wake in the night and I'm home that's my problem. I'm afraid they taking advantage. You either need to be strong enough to talk to them about it or hand in notice. Were you placed by agency? If you get on well with agency they may be able to help. Good luck and sorry if I've missed stuff by not reading all the comments. (I will be looking for new nanny in new year btw!!)

1stly, I think that Mum is paying you to look after her child, and if she's going out to work and doing a long day, I can see why she's not getting up at 4am. But 2ndly and more importantly, it isn't normal for a child of 8 to be awake at that time, and she sounds stroppy for doing it if she's throwing things around. I think if when you talk to the parents about it (and you need to), then you all discuss and agree on a sleeping strategy that you all take turns with and make work. I think you need to explain to mum that it's making the job impossible for you and you'd rather try and change things than leave but if they don't change, you will be. I'm so sorry you're in this horrid situation.

Poor you. You have to leave, it's worth 2 weeks lost wages, although really they should pay you, but even if they don't it's better to leave now. They have no respect for you. There are lots of people who would appreciate you and be reasonable and would just be normal!

Explain that the child is their responsibility until 0630. Put a chair behind your door... I would suggest that you also explain that any work between x and 0730 would be charged as babysitting at a suitable rate which is what I believe most nannies do for evening work. Obviously if a child is sick it's different but if they're expecting you to do three extra hours on a regular basis they need to pay for it!

I would stick it out for 2 more weeks until I got paid and then I'd give them an ultimatum. They either allow me to discipline her and back me up when necessary or I walk. Now. Right this minute. Leaving them in the lurch with no childcare for that day/week. No WAY would I be looking after a child that I essentially had no control over. I used to childmind for a friend of my dad's when I was a teen and they always used to tell me to do whatever I had to in the way of discipline and not to let them get away with any shit. I was in loco parentis and therefore to act as a parent in their absence. I was pretty much free to discipline them however I saw fit. Gameboy or similar taken away for a week? Fine. Whatever it was I took it with me when I left to enforce it. Smacked backsides? Fine with them, though I don't think I ever resorted to that. It was a great job, the kids loved me, I loved them most of the time! and I got better behaviour out of them than their own parents sometimes because they knew if I threatened something I would bloody well do it. This child's mother is undermining you and leaving you absolutely no authority. She knows she doesn't have to listen to you because mummy is on her side and anything you say is an empty threat that can't be followed through. You can't safely care for a child you have no authority over. They're putting you in a really shit situation and I think they need that pointed out to them. If they don't care then you should leave. A child who can't be told off or corrected in any way is only going to get worse and you don't need that stress. Trust me your blood pressure will thank you. I could've cheerfully killed the two I had on some days and I WAS allowed to completely lose my shit with them. I can't imagine having to deal with that without any power to stop the behaviour.

galaxygirl. 1stly, I think that Mum is paying you to look after her child, and if she's going out to work and doing a long day, I can see why she's not getting up at 4am.
I disagree completely. The mum is not paying the nanny to work at 4am. She pays her from 7.30 (or maybe 6.30, I'm a bit confused about that bit). Lots of mothers have to work a long day and get up with their children in the night. It makes you sound very entitled to believe that just because there is a paid member of staff on the premises, the parent doesn't have to do any parenting. Nannies are entitled to time off, it's a paid job, she is not a slave, the parents have to step up during her time off or employ someone else to take over for the hours the nanny is resting and they don't want to parent.

Can you even get night nannies for 8 year olds?

I'd take the child to the parents bedroom, wake them up with," here you go poppet, here's mummy and daddy, I will see you at 7.30 when I start work"...a fortnight of this should be enough for you to have your first month review and an honest discussion about sleep management training. Also to discuss your 20 days of overtime...this month you will have done 70 hours overtime ( based on 5 day week and daily waking at 4am).

You need to call an urgent meeting with them. Be professional. Explain that you cannot work if getting up at 4am every day & from now you will be bringing their daughter to them if she appears in your room at 4am. Say if she continues to appear in your room you will be looking at alternatives such as a lock.

Tell them they have a week to sort this or you will be handing in your notice. Give the required amount of time as specified by your contract so you show you are professional (unless it's something daft).

Give them a chance to sort it out.

Alter the details if you want - but talk to them professionally, set your boundaries & ensure they know you will be resigning if it isn't sorted out.

Have you had a chance to discuss your feelings with your employer yet OP?

OP, I know this is a hard situation and in the nicest way possible it does sound like this is perhaps the first time you've been in this situation. Please don't be scared about trying to sort it out. Why on earth would they just sack you? They need you! If they do, then walk away at whatever cost because this job is going to make you increasingly unhappy.
I've had nannies and au pairs, and I have friends who have. I treat mine very decently, set pay, set hours, overtime, detailed job description, clear rules about disciplining the children - set, defined boundaries for everything. My last nanny (live out) stayed with me for 6 years and only left because I moved away. All nannies/au pairs had a lock on their door and children were told they couldn't go in there and it was the nanny/au pair's personal space. The nice thing about a live-in is that they become part of the family, and I think all of them had an "open door" for the DCs and didn't mind them in their rooms, but they had the lock in case they did want to protect their personal space. The DCs knew to come to me at night. I'm only aware of one of the DCs ever going to the au pair and not me - the au pair mentioned in passing that my DD had gone into her one night - she had just taken her into her bed for a cuddle and hadn't given it a second's thought (I think she was rather flattered that DD had gone to her). I did tell her that she shouldn't allow that, the DCs need to come to me at night and not disturb her, and encouraged her to use her lock.

But I know lots of other people who will treat their nannies/au pairs very badly and really take advantage of them. And your employers are in this category. The only hope you have of putting things on a better footing is to do it early, at the very start, not to allow the problems to carry on and escalate.
What you describe is not on, it is intolerable, but I think you know that.
The question is how you deal with it.
I think personally that this job is dead in the water, because of what you say about mum's attitude. However, for your own personal reasons you may want to try to make it work. In which case you have to explain to mum that you are too tired to do your job if you are being woken like this, it is clearly not in your job description or working hours, but more importantly her DD has a sleep problem which needs to be addressed by you and by the parents working together. Suggest how you might do it together (even if it's really the parents' problem because you are NOT a night nanny). The clock in the room is a great starting point. She must be told not to get out of bed until x o'clock and not to come and find you until y o'clock, and if there's a problem in the middle of the night she must go to her parents and not to you. This child needs to learn to settle herself, and amuse herself. Eg she could read a book, play with her dolls or whatever. There needs to be an agreed strategy for dealing with the child if she doesn't obey the new rules. Ask for a lock on your room as well, because the boundaries have already been blurred. Agree what you should do if she comes looking for you and not parents before y o'clock - eg do you take her to the parents, do you take her back to bed and leave her and ignore any further knocking on your door (the first option is really the only sensible one)?

I too don't understand the 6.30/7.30 thing - it seems that your official starting time is 7.30 but if child wants you from 6.30 then you have to get up and tend to her. That seems a bit mad, but it's a bit late if you've already agreed to it.
This child is 8 - she is old enough to know not to disturb the adults until 7.30.

Even my 3yo daughter understands 4am is early! We have a groclock that changes at 7:30am from night mode to day mode. If she wakes up earlier than that, she goes back to sleep or we tell her over the monitor that "the sun is not awake" and then she snoozes for a bit.
I never allowed my kids to get up and play at 4-5am, they both had a period as babies where they would wake up and want to play at around that time, but we kept them in the city with lights off and no engagement until 7am. There were a couple of weeks of putting them down in silence for ages... but I think they got the message and they both wake up now at 7-7:30am. I personally believe if you give in and play wity them or put some fun on TV, they will keep doing it. I opted for boring and putting back in cot.

That said, I don't think waking up at 4am is normal for that age, the mum is trying to get you to sort it out but without telling the kid off? That's so weird and unreasonable! I'd leave, it won't be manageable in the long term. Unless you can sit down with her and discuss that bit, allow for putting kid in bed, lock in your door, etc

*kept them in the cot (not the city)... autocorrect fail!

Anyway, you need to let the nanny discipline your kids, otherwise it can be really dangerous and the kids will have no respect for her! I had a nanny that was the exact opposite, she was gentle as a play date and never told her off... I kept pushing her to tell my DD off and also to get her to do whatever she said, because otherwise I could not leave without worrying that DD might be doing something silly or crossing the road or running away because she would not listen or do what the nanny told her. Kids need boundaries.

I'd quit now. The situation is very telling in that the parents are happy for this to be the case. You're 2 weeks on in a new job, all of you should be on your best most accommodating behaviour- if they're being that unreasonable now then it's only going to get worse. Honestly. Leave now and save yourself the months of grief before you leave anyway.

OP - brace! have you addressed this with the parents? Let us know.

Anyway, you need to let the nanny discipline your kids, otherwise it can be really dangerous and the kids will have no respect for her!

I used to see people in Mexico leave their children with servants who were not allowed to tell them off. Hell for the servant and the children learn nothing good from this situation.

And I personally would never leave a child of mine with someone I didn't trust to discipline them, it's an untenable position.

I feel sorry for child. She isn't getting sleep she needs, or firm boundaries she needs either.
But unless the mother gets real, you are in an invidious position. You should hand in notice, and. explain why

Well any update?

HRWT but you need a bolt on your door and if she comes in then you need to wake the parents up and get them to deal with her until you start at 7.30. You cannot function if you are woken up at 4 every morning.