To seriously wonder what it will take for the Left to realise hurling insults at their core voters won't win votes?

[basketoffreshveg]

guardian link

Now, I realise the above is about Trump, but if I didn't have to get ready for work I am sure I could find easily enough any number of articles from the last twelve months stating that core Labour voters are too stupid to know what is good for them, wrong, misguided, naive, foolish and poor judges of political and economical climates.

I keep thinking that at any key moment the light will go on and the penny will drop and the left will realise and identify this is the very problem and why they aren't being elected.

They aren't losing because of stupid voters but largely because these voters dislike being called stupid. I am not necessarily advocating a U turn insofar as policies go but in the way they are presented to the electorate.

Yet after every crushing blow I see articles like the one above and I have to reach the conclusion that there is a serious disconnect here as if I can identify the source of the problem and Labour/left seemingly cannot, and I am no genius, I truly can't see them ever getting back in.

Have the goalposts moved from "the left insult themselves and push their core voters to the right" to "there's a woman who thinks immigration is 'cultural progress'?

A quick check reveals that the writer in question is a freelance journalist who writes both for the Guardian and the Telegraph. I suppose calling her a "Telegraph journalist" wouldn't fit the "evil lefties" narrative, though, would it?

Could we perhaps agree to sticking to the facts from now on, rather than just making stuff up? (I appreciate, Twogoats, that you made an honest mistake.)

That was in response to user1471439240, sorry, and the comment about Monisha Rajesh's tweet.

More bile - On twitter - a stream of accounts (inc videos) of students shouting 'build the wall', grabbing girls by the pussy, "like the president does"

Meh. Let's argue that it's all Left-wingers fault.

I blame the left for offering no suitable alternatives. Give people reasons to vote. there are many who do not see themselves as left or right. If the left was winning the arguments at the ballot box it would be ok but they are not. They need to be more persuasive or compromise more. If not they may win a moral argument but not much else.

i believe a well argued point is offensive to a lot of right-leaning people who want to see things in black and white. the sheer fact that is is well argued is offensive as it is representative of the educated 'elite'. I'm afraid we are living in the era of simplistic mob mentality at least for the time being.

^ ^This. I think many on the "right" have a deep distain for education and those who are well educated. Having a built up view of the "self-made man", "school of life" etc. there is a real "I don't need anyone with their fancy education to tell me anything" vibe. Sad really, because I think the failures in properly supporting the education system stand out loud and clear in decisions such as these. it's hard to hear reasoned, fact based argument ignored in favour of celebrity circus....and hard not to point out the stupidity.

Birdy

Those things are clearly unacceptable.

But by in essence saying 'we are the only ones who see this as wrong' you're proving the point I was alluding to.

Whose 'we'?

I said I don't identify as a left winger.

So no one should speak out about it?

Could i just say that the 'left' as represented by people who go on protest marches and the like are more narrow minded and intolerant and indeed violent than anyone on the 'right'.
In addition they essentially want to shut down any kind of debate. In my opinion.

BratFarrars and your evidence for that would be........?

The same evidence of 'insults and bile thrown around by the left' which amounted to one insult that had a base in fact and two thoughtful articles.

Op you have said that clear sexist and racist conduct is clearly wrong. Yet a significant part of the electorate rewarded someone who did exactly the same thing. So, what message is the electorate sending out? We dont care about such behaviour (possibly)? Or other parts of your platform are more important than such behaviour (more likely)?

I think the anti elistism (actually an anti-education, anti expert, anti nuance message (cynically put forward by some of the elite like Gove and Farage) is a real problem for a lot of people on both sides of the political spectrum . For example, the ill informed rubbish being spouted by Suzanne Evans (?) of UKIP about bring ing high Court judges under "democratic control" (for which deservedly she was roundly accused by the Tory Anna Soubry MP of advocating for fascism.

" BratFarrars and your evidence for that would be........? "

there is no need to ask a question in that sneery patronising way is there?
You can be the first piece of evidence if you like...:)

The way that left wing agitators behave to people they perceive to be on the 'right' is an example.

User

I suppose the problem is that if you deal with something on a surface level, these are only the responses you will get.

If there is a fight and that results in violent conduct then violence cannot be tolerated.

However that does not stop valid questions being asked - why did the fight start, at what point did it become physical, what had the perpetrators done to try to avoid the fight and so on.

Asking these questions might help us understand how to avoid violence in future. Of course, it might be the fight was just between violent tossers but chances are things led up to it. That's largely my stance. People are voting as they are for a reason.

Great posts Brat

Lemme see - these left wing people are idiots so all left-wingers are idiots?

And trump is a right wing racist, sex assaulting idiot so all the people who voted for him are...
...perfectly nice and lovely.

So many simplifications.

well no that is not really what I am saying.
However the desire to shut down debate does seem to be a left wing characteristic, and these videos illustrate that well, albeit in an extreme way.

No one has said that. The problem is how the left are perceived amongst those who should be voting for them. If they don't want votes but the lofty high-ground that's well and good but ultimately will lead to a position of being not only in opposition but in the position of a weak opposition.

If a general election is called for I am concerned Labour will be obliterated altogether, or as good as.

People wanted jobs, hope, to provide for their families, mainly.
They grew tired of being told how to feel and what to think, felt cheapened by rabid political dogma.
People aren't stupid.

StrictlyPan - great video.

Brat And the people on these videos represent a 'lone woman reporter' no they don't !!!! Did you even watch it? She is complaining her cameraman was punched to the very supportive police woman! She was NOT alone the police were helping her.

So asking for evidenced is sneery and patronising? Grow the fuck up. Is that too patronising? You want to be treated like an adult and act like a child. If you make a point you need to he able to back it up.

The female reporter was attacked and that is clearly wrong. But she was not alone as you state. The police were helping her she was not alone.

The OP quoted an article as one that was insulting. It wasn't. In the previous posts you mention left wing bile in newspapers, so far one questionable insult has been quoted. I am being patronising when I ask for proof.

There, there dear have a cup of tea and a sit down. All this proof we need must be tiring you out. Bless.

To be honest, Weneed, it wasn't insulting in the sense that it was saying rude things :)

But there was a distinct sense of loftiness, of being above 'all that', of disconnection.

'We know best. If you don't agree, , sorry, but, you are wrong.'

Insulting doesn't have to mean name calling or swearing.

" There, there dear have a cup of tea and a sit down. All this proof we need must be tiring you out. Bless. "

wtf? Why are you talking to me like that? I made a valid point and backed it up with hard evidence. Yes this woman had a cameraman. I know other women journalists that have had the same treatment that do not.
You see to me, you are a typical leftie who engages in patronising and shaming language as soon as they are shown something that represents any kind of argument against their views.