to feel discriminated against at work for not having children???

[chicdiana1980]

I was accidentally copied into an email at work yesterday and I am really thinking about going to some kind of tribunal about this. I was feeling p*ssed off already but this is the tip of the iceburg!

to give you a background, I work for a fairly small company, office based. Pretty much everyone else in the office has children, and they are mostly young children. I don't have any children, and I am happy with this, but I feel like I get the brunt of it at work.

It seems like noone ever questions people when they take extra time off if they just say it's because of their children. Mostly it's leaving early pretty much every day to pick up children from school. Others who don't do this have 'parents evenings' or school plays or things, or get in late after the 'school run,' always laughing about how it's so stressful and that's I'm lucky. Sick days when the children are sick - how is this fair? Sick days are for the employee, not for employee and any family.

There has to be cover for the whole day, so it is usually me who ends up having to stay until the end, or get in early, so that someone is there. I regularly have to stay late as the colleagues who fly off at 3:30 to school leaves work that needs to be done. They say that they make it up in the mornings or at other times, but it's really no help.

Anyway, this has been going on for years now and I got to the stage where I thought I would just have to accept it as one of those things. But I was copied into an email (accidentally) which was obviously a round robin which had been going around my colleagues and the last person sent it to the entire office, not just their 'select group' (the select group being pretty much everyone but me). They were talking about who was going to be leaving early - and essentially they all were, leaving someone to say 'so who's gonna cover until the end ;),' and the last person said 'guess who. it's not like she has anything else to do anyway!'

I am seriously furious about this. I don't work Wednesdays but I am seriously considering going straight to ACAS or someone (our office is so small there is no real HR department) to make a complaint about this. I have been in tears for most of the morning - but before I do anything, would it be unreasonable to do this?

REGARDLESS of their entitlement to leave for personal reasons ie childcare, which as someone else said, is their concern, not the OPs, the TRUE problem here is the last line of said email :

"who's going to cover, if we all need leave? Oh it'll have to be OP, SHE HAS NO LIFE ANYWAY, HO, HO, HO, HO

THIS is the problem and it's bang out of order

1. ACAS
2. Union
3. Job Hunt
4. Go to Area Manager if there is one.

Piglet, just saw that. Power to her and I hope she gets it sorted. Her colleagues are being awful and she deserves better. I have always worked my hours, made up time and been as flexible as my employers have been because yes, there were times when I had to go home because my DDs were ill. I always worked extra hours to go to nativities and the like, or didn't go if it wasn't possible. Not everyone who has kids takes the mick.

id walk in on time and leave on time.

years of covering their sorry arses is over.

rightsofwomen Please do tell me who I can employ that will look after my sick child with no notice???? I am not sorry (that was said sarcastically). My sick child will always come before my work- there is no alternative . My family and close friends all work fulltime, her father is not around (there's your free shot to judge some more), her nursery cannot take a sick child in. Please tell me what I'm missing?
Btw I was working in hospitality and quit when I split with her father as I could not do the hours being a single parent. That's why I work in an office that's fits around nursery hours. Clearly this is still not good enough. But of course if I didn't have a job that would be judged so much more.
People are ridiculous

As an aside, irrespective of this latest email how many hours are you contracted to work? and how many hours do you actually work?

how many times are you expected to work extra hours to cover people ?

I know that's just not acceptable and when you sit down with your manager to go through this email you should have facts and figures about the extra hours that you have been expected to do or at the end of the day to cover.

Work it out. Show him : I've worked 30 extra hours in the last xxx weeks/months.

Tell him you are unable to continue doing that from now.

And if asked again, just refuse.

this whole situation is unfair but you need to be specific. what do you want to change? What do you want your manager to address?

be specific in what you want.

I experienced this when i worked in the NHS as a team secretary. The longtimers, their friends and the manager all taking the piss like this. They deliberately take advantage of your good nature, so doing 'small favors' for them winds up with you being expected to do the job...and if you speak up then you're 'rocking the boat' and being 'unreasonable'

It's passive aggressive bullying OP and as your manager is condoning it - you need to get HR involved.

I gave HR a long list (with the time added up in hours and days) of all the occasions i was forced to cover for others - (if i didn't i would be made to feel like i was 'unreasonable', 'selfish' or threatened with misconduct if i left the desk unmanned during opening hours)

I requested payment for the 'overtime' and 'cover' i had already done.
I then stated that i would no longer be doing any of it unless a) i was actually ASKED by the person wanting the favor
b) If i was going to be the only 'go to' person for this then my contract would have to amended to reflect this - and my wage
They obviously weren't going to pay more out so they actually did something about it.

All flexi time had to be booked and signed off - and you had to make up any time owed before you could book more
Apparently HR weren't being 'unreasonable', 'selfish' or 'rocking the gravy boat' by insisting everybody adhere to their contracts and be treated equally

Funny how entitled parents go on about childfree people not understanding their struggles... when we're talking about situations that require us to take personal responsibility for our life choices^.
They need to organise their working hours/childcare better - their personal lives should not be affecting your working life.

All life out of work should be treated with equal respect. Those without children should be entitled to the same freedom the parents have to use however they please.

I wouldn't complain about them, I'd demand equal treatment.

It doesn't sound like discrimination to me, but it does sound like a shitty place to work. Your choice is to stay working with people who take advantage of you, or to look for a job somewhere you would be valued. I know which I would choose.

Your comment about Mothers keeping their legs crossed is appalling and to use it on a parenting website shows incredible lack of judgement.

I x-posted Piglet.

It sounds a reason to leave your job but I'm not sure you would have a case in an employment tribunal as childlessness is not a protected status. It sounds like they are a good flexible employer but haven't thought about how to ensure work still gets covered. This is worth pointing out. Also, unless it's going to enfanger someone, you could try making more use of flexi time yourself and worrying a bit less about work getting done.

buttered she's already apologised did that comment.

Macoroni22 I am not judging you for being a single parent (I am one myself actually).

But the fact is it is not fair on your colleagues or your employer if you are unable to meet your contractual obligations. I agree, the solution to that is very, very difficult.

Do you use Emergency leave and parental leave? I know these are unpaid, but I guess that's the downside.

Having no OH or no dependents or both is not protected by the Equality Act and it ought to be. In the meantime leaning on people like the OP to take more than their share of the early or late or night or weekend shifts could well be indirect age discrimination or in the case of a man indirect gender discrimination. Everyone's private life is of equal value.

I used to be just like you, OP. Today I left at 3pm because I fancied it. I've booked Christmas off this year. I just decided "fuck 'em". I decided to stop being helpful when I was denied leave for a wedding as it was summer holidays. After that if leave was denied for no good reason I would speak to HR- I may still not have had it authorised but no one else would either so it stopped most of it. If I heard people arranging to leave early without arranging me to cover then I'd leave 5 minutes earlier with a breezy bye-bye! You have to dig your heels in.

and the last person said 'guess who. it's not like she has anything else to do anyway!'
No one can force you to work voluntary overtime, and theres no way I;d cover for them after that. I would also take it further. Talk to ACAS first.

People complaining because they have kids and sometimes have to leave in an emergency have missed the point of this thread.

I work in local government and we are certainly not allowed to use sick leave for child's sickness. We can lie and take a sickie but sickness is monitored and reported on. If my child is sick, I take flexi, annual leave, unpaid or work at home. No free days for me. I would also expect other parents who report to me to do the same.

Everyone's private life is of equal value.

This with bells on. I'm just waiting for the "I've been told I can't have Christmas Day off even though I've worked it five years in a row because someone with kids wants it off and Christmas is for kids really" threads to start. I thought this would be one of those when I saw the title.

Thankfully Christmas is on a Sunday this year so I doubt we will have many of those threads.

But the fact is it is not fair on your colleagues or your employer if you are unable to meet your contractual obligations.

Actually Macoroni may well have a supportive employer (like I do) who measures her contribution is what she actually does, what she achieves and contributes to her company, rather than the exact number of hours she sits behind a desk.

Many working parents, and single parents in particular, go above and beyond in the hours that they are available. Even though they may be technically working less hours than the childless person sitting next to them, they can achieve more, and be more focused as they aware of their other obligations and how this impacts on their work. This is because they are parents.

Anyone can sit behind a desk for X hours - it doesn't mean they are productive or effective.

I hadn't realised-that's great leanback. I'm self employed now but hated trying to book holiday in August and at Christmas.

Many working parents, and single parents in particular, go above and beyond in the hours that they are available. Even though they may be technically working less hours than the childless person sitting next to them, they can achieve more, and be more focused as they aware of their other obligations and how this impacts on their work. This is because they are parents.

Bollocks. The fact I haven't had kids doesn't mean my work ethic isn't just as good as the some who has.

but Hunter what happens when you can't book Christmas off because you're not allowed to etc - I had this in a job years ago - could never book summer or Christmas or of course others got in first or if I did try to book around those times I was told 'you're not allowed to book those times'.

if there is no real HR dept it can be hard to put things in place. Lots of mothers use childcare or after-school clubs, one architect I worked for was lucky to have space to employ an au pair who helped her out but I totally get OP being pissed off with her colleagues attitudes after a while. I also see parents (both male and female) on the morning train commute taking their DC to school and then going into work - this is 8.15 and 8.39 respectively so height of rush hour but if they can do it why can't OP's colleagues?

Too many people these days take a job where they are allowed to get away with murder and is too far away or they will get away with childcare transport when they could easily work their hours or find jobs more suited. Got a neighbour who works part time as after school assistant and lunchtime assistant was at her DC's school now they've left it (secondary) but she also before dog walked and was a carer for an elderly neighbour (since died). she also works one Saturday in a bank and has taken other days doing that too. I'm sure she doesn't love her jobs and didn't enjoy the carer part of her life but she did it because it fitted around childcare!

The unpleasant comments about you are a different issue to you having to take up the slack from them not being around. If you feel you are having to work too much and others are shirking to an unacceptable extent, approach HR about this, not the unpleasantness. HR will need to look at your workload and in doinf so it will come to light if others are shirking and they will need to address it if there are genuine issues.

The unpleasant comments about you in the email are a difficult one. The only real complaint you could make is that colleagues are using the work email system to send inappropriate emails in work time, about other colleagues. In terms of what you would want done about this or how it could be handled it is tricky. You could send it your boss or HR to investigate. They will then have to decide whether to challenge your colleagues about their unpleasantness. It is an option, but I'm not sure I would actually involve management over this, because I'm not quite sure what could be achieved.

I think I would send a 'reply-all' as if it had been intended that you were included. Without getting snotty and shirty, but in a dignified way, I would simply say that I would be unable to take up their slack when leaving early, because I have plenty of other things of my own that I need to get on with. Please could they sort it out amongst themselves.

I think such a response makes clear that you have received the message, will make them feel ashamed, but also doesn't give them the satisfaction of seeing you upset or retaliating in order to get revenge, which often removed any shame people have about their own actions.

So, yes approach management/HR over your workload if you want to. You can only really comment on your own workload, but if it is becoming heavy because of the actions of others, manage,net will need to address that - make sure you don't make direct complaints against others but only comment on your workload.

And one last thought comes to my mind......is the reason you are upset because of the email being nasty about you (understandable that you'd be upset over this) rather than the picking up the slack? Has the nasty email made you feel more negative about helping the others out than you were feeling before? AGain thwould be understandable, but you need to recognise if you really do have an issue about workload or not that you want to take to management. Don't let your view on this issue be clouded by the nasty email, which might distort your view of the other issue a bit.

Be dignified in the face of this. Keep your head high, be prepared to acknowledge any apologies without feeling you need to suck up to the cows, nor to seek revenge. Rise above it - it is the best way for you to get over it and it is the best way for the nasty people to realise the difference between your behaviour and theirs.

Many working parents, and single parents in particular, go above and beyond in the hours that they are available. Even though they may be technically working less hours than the childless person sitting next to them, they can achieve more, and be more focused as they aware of their other obligations and how this impacts on their work. This is because they are parents.

Absolute rubbish.

Wow,what a bunch of entitled unprofessional arses you work with! Call acas!