to feel discriminated against at work for not having children???

[chicdiana1980]

I was accidentally copied into an email at work yesterday and I am really thinking about going to some kind of tribunal about this. I was feeling p*ssed off already but this is the tip of the iceburg!

to give you a background, I work for a fairly small company, office based. Pretty much everyone else in the office has children, and they are mostly young children. I don't have any children, and I am happy with this, but I feel like I get the brunt of it at work.

It seems like noone ever questions people when they take extra time off if they just say it's because of their children. Mostly it's leaving early pretty much every day to pick up children from school. Others who don't do this have 'parents evenings' or school plays or things, or get in late after the 'school run,' always laughing about how it's so stressful and that's I'm lucky. Sick days when the children are sick - how is this fair? Sick days are for the employee, not for employee and any family.

There has to be cover for the whole day, so it is usually me who ends up having to stay until the end, or get in early, so that someone is there. I regularly have to stay late as the colleagues who fly off at 3:30 to school leaves work that needs to be done. They say that they make it up in the mornings or at other times, but it's really no help.

Anyway, this has been going on for years now and I got to the stage where I thought I would just have to accept it as one of those things. But I was copied into an email (accidentally) which was obviously a round robin which had been going around my colleagues and the last person sent it to the entire office, not just their 'select group' (the select group being pretty much everyone but me). They were talking about who was going to be leaving early - and essentially they all were, leaving someone to say 'so who's gonna cover until the end ;),' and the last person said 'guess who. it's not like she has anything else to do anyway!'

I am seriously furious about this. I don't work Wednesdays but I am seriously considering going straight to ACAS or someone (our office is so small there is no real HR department) to make a complaint about this. I have been in tears for most of the morning - but before I do anything, would it be unreasonable to do this?

often gets irritated that I will use my children to get out attending rearranged meetings. As the union rep (or nearest we have), I often remind her that she is not obliged to attend them herself but she should make up commitments if she doesn't wish to have the confrontation or just say no

Are you for real, kittymama ? Your attitude is disgraceful - you lie & call it "union" rep work. If you really are a "union rep" your union needs to get you into some training, PDQ. Because at the moment you're lying & cheating.

YABU, and your attitude is part of the problem.

The human race actually needs people to keep having kids

The world is over-populated. Until the recent xenophobic racist suspicion against immigrants in this country, we had lots of people wanting to come here to work. In logical, whole world terms we do not need more Western children They take up around 3 to 4 times the resource of children elsewhere. If anyone in the developed West has children they do it for their own desires, not to help the world. So don't kid yourself or anyone else about this.

After all you chose to not have children

For most childless people, this is not a "choice." And it is extremely thoughtless to say that it is.

We do not need everybody to be having children - there are far too many humans already. Don't make procreation out to be done noble unselfish act for the good of the species.

And don't you think you could have been a little more thoughtful? Theres a good chance that the women on MN without children are there because they do want children, but cannot have them.

But once people have got children, they haven't got an option not to care for them, so then it has to be balanced with work. This can be done without taking the piss out of colleagues who don't have caring responsibilities - but can have other commitments.

boopsy No it is not a 'perk' of having children that you get paid for full time hours while actually working part time. That is not a perk, it's fraud.
OP, I am furious on your behalf. My boss has always been brilliant about me needing to take emergency leave or take an hour off for an assembly etc so, as a result, I am very conscientious at work and am happy to help out colleagues when I can. It's give and take.
Most working mothers really aren't like this. This is definitely bullying and you need to make a stand and not be fobbed off although I appreciate it's not that easy for everyone. Good luck.

After all you chose to not have children, if you had them you would get these 'perks' also.

It isn always a choice

I don't remember my DSis choosing to be infertile.

A completely goady, unnecessary comment.

My friend has been on the other side of this...with a male subordinate, as it happens. He wasn't fulfilling his contracted hours and his performance wasn't up to scratch. She told him so at his review and got the answer " but I need to pick my kids up". She was - rightly - frustrated by this, as her own performance review depended on her efficient management of her team. As she said to me, "I do have sympathy for him and obviously, it wouldn't be a problem in an emergency or as a one off. But, ultimately, he's been employed to do a job which he isn't doing." And that's the nub of it. A responsible employer will try to accommodate parents; indeed, it's in their interest to do so, as they will have more people wanting and able to work for them, from whom they can pick the most talented. But - the hard fact is that you're paid to do a job. If you can't do that job (for whatever reason) then you can't expect to be paid for it or to continue in it. And I know for a fact that the sort of shenanigans that the OP is talking about makes life difficult for all working parents. One senior manager actually said it to me - "Mothers are a pain - there's always some reason they aren't there." I think it only takes one brush with a group like the OP's colleagues to entrench that sort of attitude in someone's mind long term - and that's a real shame for all of us.

OP I am furious on your behalf! So sorry this is happening to you. In your position I would be raising a grievance. They have to be dealt with in a time specific manner and everything would be logged and evidenced. If you are unhappy after stage one the. You escalate to stage two and so on. Im all for informal shifts and covering amongst yourselves but only if that benefits everyone. This clearly does not. The grievance and going through the formal channels will also stand you in good stead if you were left with no option but to resign (bullying etc). You may well have a case for constructive dismissal at an employment tribunal. Worth remembering that you can take a current employer to employment tribunal as well if you had grounds. Keep us updated. I hope you've managed to enjoy your weekend despite all this hanging over you.

But this time the coven sending the email and having a barbed joke at the OP's expense, is NOT a man.

Boopsy you sound about as self-absorbed, clueless and entitled as the OP's comments are. It's quite possible that flexi time privileges can be taken away for the whole company. Then they'd be having to deal with their childcare problems themselves or commit to rigid shift work.

*OP's colleagues

He wasn't fulfilling his contracted hours and his performance wasn't up to scratch. She told him so at his review and got the answer " but I need to pick my kids up".

One of my male colleagues does this, with the massive difference that he requested flexible working and it was agreedirected he finish in the office at 3pm, then he makes up his hours from home later. He's usually online when I've been working late, so I think it works for him.

But he went through the official process, and our jobs are ones which are less tied to particular times and locations, so it wouldn't work for all - but that's partly the point of requesting it officially, it can be reviewed to see how it fits with business requirements.

I am going to seek some legal advice about this - surely if someone can be discriminated against for having children this also includes a 'mirror' discrimination to protect people who do not have children?

I think I will wait until after the Christmas meal so that this is not awkward. I am thinking about not going this year though - we all split the bill evenly just between us but my colleagues children all come too, so I always end up having to spend more as the kids meals are added to the tab - and I just go on my own. They say that we are all chipping in and working as a team. I don't want to be labelled as a Scrooge for not going though.

Why are the children even at the Christmas meal? Are partners there too?

we all split the bill evenly just between us but my colleagues children all come too, so I always end up having to spend more as the kids meals are added to the tab

This gets worse and worse.

But I don't think - (however, please check this) - that there's a "mirror" discrimination unfortunately.

You need to make a complaint about a "hostile workplace" over the email, and the unequal treatment about flexi-time. If you have proof, something about the cheating practices over time sheets would be good, too.

Good luck, OP.

As a parent I can't imagine going out and expecting non-parents to subsidise my family's meal. I really do think you are being badly treated, op. I hope you get somewhere with improving the situation. Or a job with nicer colleagues.

This gets worse and worse.

Bloody hell OP

Are you also running around after the kids at the Christmas meal while the parents get pissed. I bet i know the answer to this already.

You are paying more at the meal and babysitting there as well arent you?

Please please do not allow them to take advantage of you anymore either at the workplace or at the Christmas party.

Christ on a bike!!!!!!!!!

OP a women could suffer indirect sex discrimination as they are more likely than men to having caring responsibilities. There is no protective characteristic under the equality act that covers having children, therefore there is no "mirror" discrimination possible. If you "whistleblow" to your manager (or their manager) that people are taking the piss then you are protected from being victimised (being treated differently) because you have made a complaint. So if the bullying gets worse you do have protection.

Also why the hell would the children be at the xmas party.....

apringle

"One question though: I have little tiny kids and when I go back to work and they get sick, who should be able to stay home with them if I was unable to take leave?"

My answer, Why don't you ask your partner? Why is it my responsibility to sort out childcare for YOUR children? I am not your childcare, I am not paid to do your job.

If you ask nicely, I may just do you the favour of helping you out.

I think the night of the Xmas dinner you should have an old friend in town from abroad and sadly have to miss it.

chicdiana1980

Don't go to the Christmas dinner, it is just more of the same.

OP - don't wait until the Christmas dinner. Speak to your line manager, or her line manager. They're trying to bully you until you go back to covering for them all the time, it is unacceptable and you don't have to put up with it. The longer you do the more difficult it gets.

Are you looking for another job?

Yep Dont go to the Christmas dinner. Cos it will be work for you and a party for the rest of them.

Agree you should tackle this ASAP OP. Don't put it off. And i wouldn't bother going to the Christmas dinner.