to feel discriminated against at work for not having children???

[chicdiana1980]

I was accidentally copied into an email at work yesterday and I am really thinking about going to some kind of tribunal about this. I was feeling p*ssed off already but this is the tip of the iceburg!

to give you a background, I work for a fairly small company, office based. Pretty much everyone else in the office has children, and they are mostly young children. I don't have any children, and I am happy with this, but I feel like I get the brunt of it at work.

It seems like noone ever questions people when they take extra time off if they just say it's because of their children. Mostly it's leaving early pretty much every day to pick up children from school. Others who don't do this have 'parents evenings' or school plays or things, or get in late after the 'school run,' always laughing about how it's so stressful and that's I'm lucky. Sick days when the children are sick - how is this fair? Sick days are for the employee, not for employee and any family.

There has to be cover for the whole day, so it is usually me who ends up having to stay until the end, or get in early, so that someone is there. I regularly have to stay late as the colleagues who fly off at 3:30 to school leaves work that needs to be done. They say that they make it up in the mornings or at other times, but it's really no help.

Anyway, this has been going on for years now and I got to the stage where I thought I would just have to accept it as one of those things. But I was copied into an email (accidentally) which was obviously a round robin which had been going around my colleagues and the last person sent it to the entire office, not just their 'select group' (the select group being pretty much everyone but me). They were talking about who was going to be leaving early - and essentially they all were, leaving someone to say 'so who's gonna cover until the end ;),' and the last person said 'guess who. it's not like she has anything else to do anyway!'

I am seriously furious about this. I don't work Wednesdays but I am seriously considering going straight to ACAS or someone (our office is so small there is no real HR department) to make a complaint about this. I have been in tears for most of the morning - but before I do anything, would it be unreasonable to do this?

Purple if you know anything about workplace bullying which this is - its very serious can cause paranoia, anxiety etc - I myself was bullied could not leave and had to have CBT counselling in order to cope.

I do know about workplace bullying and how awful work can become. I don't get the impression from the op's posts that she's in need of time off yet. This only happened yesterday. If the op genuinely feels she needs help from the GP for stress I'd absolutely advocate that, but most of the posts suggesting that seem to be based on tit for tat. At some point this situation needs sorting and pretending to be stressed when you're not isn't going to make it go away.

Just to be clear, I don't condone the behaviour of these people at all-it's totally inappropriate and they deserve to be reprimanded for it. I just don't think going off "sick" when you're not, even if your coworkers are behaving badly is the right course of action.

Really hope you left at 4pm OP.

You need to request a formal meeting with your manager. Take copies of your email and the patronising load of twaddle you were sent in return.

Tell your manager:

1. You are extremely unhappy and feel that you are being taken advantage of unfairly - use the example of the colleague who pointed out that they have to do school pickups and the like.
2. You are being bullied in return for trying to ask for some fairness. 3. Provide the copy of the 'Mum' email and talk about the storming out and the 'next generation' comment.

Request the following:

1. That this is logged as a formal grievance.
2. That your manager will address the unfairness and the fact you are being bullied for asking for the same flexibility that others are enjoying.
3. That if you are going to be denied flexitime then it can no longer be considered part of your work compensation package and that your salary will need to be adjusted upwards to reflect the fact that you are working more hours than the rest of the team.

I agree actually purple

And if that doesn't yield anything then I would dust off your CV and update it and see a recruitment consultant (if you are in the Yorkshire area I can recommend a couple of good headhunters depending on your industry).

I'd also call in sick for a week and self-cert. You don't need to see a Doctor for that period. Not entirely dishonest as you sound as if you are struggling at work and unhappy, so from a mental health perspective it might not be a bad thing to have some time away. It's also a neat way of reminding your manager that cover is entirely dependent on you, which is not fair - and also leaves them in the shit if you leave...

OP what are you thinking you'll do?

The next time this utter twunt makes a comment about "raising the next generation", you should remind her that she is also responsible for working her required hours at her job - WHICH SHE IS PAID TO DO. And if she struggles that much, then perhaps she should drop to fixed part-time hours? I bet that would shut her up swiftly enough. I also like a PP's response of "your lack of planning is not my emergency".

This woman sounds absolutely horrendous, OP. Don't back down, don't give in - meet with your boss and HR rep first thing Monday and demand that a fair rota be put in place as you will no longer be staying late every night.

I'd stand your ground in future and say that unfortunately they are not going to be able to rely on you to cover them outside of core hours anymore as you have other commitments. You may be able to stay sometimes when it suits your schedule, but they won't be able to rely on that and they are going to need to think of alternative childcare arrangements. Either that or commit to one day a week and they can do the same.

I have a child, and I'd like to think that if I found an employer who was willing to let me work so flexibly, or had colleagues willing to work later so I could do the school run, I'd be grateful and try to go above and beyond when I was in the office. Not take the piss, mock them in emails behind their back and bugger off as early as I could. Sorry you have such shitty colleagues OP.

They are taking the utter piss out of you and you have to put a stop to it.

I remember when dd was small, she was rushed into hospital and I sat up all night with her (the pre-cursor to many such health issues, sadly). The next morning, at 8, my darling mil turned up to take over from me (dh looking after ds) and I went straight into work (school) from the ward. Mid-morning, I was approached by Management and told I would be having 8 extra children for the rest of the day as their (single, childless, living at home with parents and no responsibilities) teacher "had a headache" and was demanding having to go home.

I'm afraid I lost my shit and had an extremely unprofessional rant (in private) to the deputy, who was actually a friend. She got the extra 8 children removed and came to take my class for me for the afternoon so I could get back to the hospital.

So, it works both ways sometimes, although not as often, I grant you. There are just some people, parents or not, who take the mick. And I have to say that I learned a valuable lesson that day - and I don't allow anyone to take advantage of me anymore.

How are you feeling OP after getting through the day?

One of the others said that they do appreciate me covering but maybe if I gave more notice this would be okay

Why is it up to them to say whether or not it's OK? Why do they get to dictate your hours? Management definitely need to devise a rota system. I hope you're OK OP - you've had some good advice on here. Personally I prefer to remain whiter than white and to be able to prove that this is the case. Whilst I like my current employer, I have learned the hard way to be very, very suspicious of colleagues and management alike.

I am saying that just because someone may be sitting at their desk a few hours less, it doesn't mean that they are achieving less, or letting their employers down.

In terms of women with young children they are often working at lower levels than they would be otherwise. So they can be some of the most productive people in the time given.

OP your colleagues sound like royal piss takers so yanbu.

Op, I work full time and have 3DC's, also absolutely furious for you aswell. Entitled mums make my blood boil. Yes it is hard work and yes there are times when we need time off, however you plan where you can and take annual leave when your children are sick, NOT sick leave. What hours are these ladies contracted to work and how do they achieve their hours if they leave at 3.30 every day? Guess what, everyone has to pay childcare so they either work the hours they are paid to do or reduce their hours, you can't do both! This is a management issue so you need to raise this with her, try informally first and then if she does not take it seriously raise a grievance. The manager needs to agree a rota so everyone takes their turn. Parents should get NO preferential treatment, if she wants to agree that they can leave early then she is also agreeing to the office not being staffed.

Good luck OP, stand your ground and don't let them bully/intimidate you in to giving in.

Ultimately its not up to your colleagues to decide that their other responsibilities dictate your life. Their life their responsibilities!

Their reactions say a lot about them. First they say nasty things in the email. Then when they are caught out its lies and hypocrisy. Then when you don't instantly conform they try to get their own way by having a tantrum ("storming out") or by telling the teacher ( threatening to ring the manager). They are only doing this because they have been caught out and are panicking. The more it looks as if their easy lives / the status quo is threatened the worse it gets. My manager used to say ....don't reward bad behaviour!

You're doing great OP - stick to your guns!

Legally parents don't have more rights to flexitime than non-parents. There should be no discrimination. So you are well within your rights to take it further, and you'll probably win too because you have evidence.

chic I'm pretty much banging my head against the table here.

Can you not see that they are kicking up a fuss in order to guilt/pressure you into covering for them?

Can you not see that if they haven't made arrangements which don't require them to leave work early and take the massive piss out of you, that is THEIR problem, not yours?

Why are you going along with this shit? Stop being such a doormat!

This is a classic example of what happens when managers fail to manage. People just start to take the piss out of the nice things like flexitime that they are blessed with.....

Your manager spounds really rather crap, so try:

1. Take copies of all the emails.
2. Take them to your line manager, and tell her that you wish to raise a formal grivance because you feel you are being bullied and discriminated against. Give her the email evidence.

If she has even half a brain, your manager will, at this point be bricking it, and looking for ways to defuse this situation before it gets serious. It will make her look bad - basically crap sticking to everyone if this blows up! Assuming she then tries to defuse, she will talk things through and ask what the problem is. Explain, and...this is the clever bit.....give her the solution as well! Crap managers love subordinates with solutions, as it means they don't have to do anything risky like trying to solve it themselves. The solution to this is clearly a set rota for who gets to go home early on what day, including you. You and others may have better ideas abput the best solution of course, but the basic principle of going in there, properly winding the manager up, and then giving her a reprieve with a fix that means it goes no further, is the managerment equivalent of being blindfolded, lined up before the squad, hearing the 'click', and then reprieved. The word 'discrimination' stikes terror into many a stout heart. She will go for it!

If she does not, then you need to find another job. Anywhere that badly managed is not going to last.

Snarky emails from selfish colleagues aren't tribunal worthy -
But it's total crap they're taking advantage of you!

One question though: I have little tiny kids and when I go back to work and they get sick, who should be able to stay home with them if I was unable to take leave?

One question though: I have little tiny kids and when I go back to work and they get sick, who should be able to stay home with them if I was unable to take leave?

That's what emergency carer's leave is for, to give you time to arrange cover.

Leaving at 15:30 every day, as in the case of the OP's colleagues, is not an emergency.

OP i can just imagine what they are like in the run up to Christmas and over Christmas itself.

Whats the betting they will slope off at 3.30 citing childcare difficulties (im not saying all parents do this but this lot have already proved themselves to be liars) and use the time to do things like Christmas shopping.

How long have you worked there OP What have previous Christmases been like?

The manager is part of it, was an active part of the original email trail

I agree with PaulD'acre above re meeting with the manager and way to approach it. I would also include in that meeting with the manager that if the job requires cover X am - y pm, there needs to be an agreement put in place on which one member of the team will cover those full hours each day and then if anyone needs to deviate from their allotted day(s) on occasion then they ensure someone else is there to cover the work, they negotiate a swap or failing that they get agreement from the manager that there is no cover for those hours on that particular day. That is how I would expect a manager to manage a flex time contract where fixed hours have to be covered.

You need to be clear that you are all entitled to make use of the flexi hour benefit of your package whether you have children or not and you will not be discriminated against or taken advantage of any more.

I am a parent who works part-time on flexi time (although we don't have to cover fixed hours). My project manager (it varies by project), is always made aware of the working pattern I follow at the start of the project which takes advantage of flexi hours and does work around my family life to a degree but not in a way that prevents me from being a credible and hardworking employee or makes me standout from my colleagues who don't have children/have older children . Most people take advantage of flex time in some way to avoid rush hour, do hobbies etc. If I am going to work shorter than my normal working hour day , e.g use some flex to come in slightly later for a school assembly, , or adjust my normal working pattern, I advise the pm and check there are no issues in me doing that. That is normal workplace behaviour and etiquette as far as I am concerned.

Just one point you made though on taking sick leave for children - how is this fair? Children do get sick unfortunately and have to be looked after. That is inevitable and it is something most companies recognise by allowing 'dependants leave' (also applies if you are a carer for an elderly or disabled person too). I am entitled to 5 days dependants leave (pro-rata) a year in my contract (I think I have used 1 day in 8 years though!). Anything beyond that each year and I need to use my annual leave up. I do think that is fair personally and recognises that certain groups of people are likely to need extra time off that is necessary and out of their control.

I hope you manage to resolve this amicably without having to take it to ACAS but that needs to be your next step if not.

To all too much and others

I did say carers too not just parents.

But please enlighten me as to what a single parent with young children and no family/friends support is meant to do on Xmas day especially in a rural area when other paying options are closed?

It's not about that it's unfair that someone else without kids. I would agree. It's about logistically being impossible to get other childcare.

Some of the replies clearly didn't read the full comment.