to feel discriminated against at work for not having children???

[chicdiana1980]

I was accidentally copied into an email at work yesterday and I am really thinking about going to some kind of tribunal about this. I was feeling p*ssed off already but this is the tip of the iceburg!

to give you a background, I work for a fairly small company, office based. Pretty much everyone else in the office has children, and they are mostly young children. I don't have any children, and I am happy with this, but I feel like I get the brunt of it at work.

It seems like noone ever questions people when they take extra time off if they just say it's because of their children. Mostly it's leaving early pretty much every day to pick up children from school. Others who don't do this have 'parents evenings' or school plays or things, or get in late after the 'school run,' always laughing about how it's so stressful and that's I'm lucky. Sick days when the children are sick - how is this fair? Sick days are for the employee, not for employee and any family.

There has to be cover for the whole day, so it is usually me who ends up having to stay until the end, or get in early, so that someone is there. I regularly have to stay late as the colleagues who fly off at 3:30 to school leaves work that needs to be done. They say that they make it up in the mornings or at other times, but it's really no help.

Anyway, this has been going on for years now and I got to the stage where I thought I would just have to accept it as one of those things. But I was copied into an email (accidentally) which was obviously a round robin which had been going around my colleagues and the last person sent it to the entire office, not just their 'select group' (the select group being pretty much everyone but me). They were talking about who was going to be leaving early - and essentially they all were, leaving someone to say 'so who's gonna cover until the end ;),' and the last person said 'guess who. it's not like she has anything else to do anyway!'

I am seriously furious about this. I don't work Wednesdays but I am seriously considering going straight to ACAS or someone (our office is so small there is no real HR department) to make a complaint about this. I have been in tears for most of the morning - but before I do anything, would it be unreasonable to do this?

With regard to other comments on here I actually do feel that some parents/carers should get first refusal for leave at Christmas

As opposed to those with parents in their 80's living 200 miles away. The chances are that the parent/carer will have more Christmases with their children, while the childless person may never have another Christmas with their parents.

also someone said further in the thread if your parents live hundreds of miles away then yes you should get first refusal/be allowed to have time off for Christmas if you're single.

so what about the single people with parents who are nearer but they still want to spend time with them at Christmas?? they still should work the Christmas holiday times? don't think so

I work in retail. I work every Christmas. It is the nature of the beast. I also have two children.

All leave is booked on a first come, first served basis. It's the fairest and only way to do it.

It usually works itself out because those without children generally do not want time off in August and we aren't allowed time off at Christmas anyway.

so what about the single people with parents who are nearer but they still want to spend time with them at Christmas?? they still should work the Christmas holiday times? don't think so

Sorry but it should still be on a rota basis.

No one persons life trumps another.

My mum has always had to work school holidays due to other staff needing time off with their children. Until this year, when she put her foot down. She has a grandchild she'd like to spend time with and even if she didn't why should she have to work all summer long to cater to everyone elses family needs?

And if you are single and have no family and just want to enjoy Christmas in any way you like?

You still don't have to work more Christmasses than anybody else and if you did it last year someone with family ties will have to do it this year.

The OP's happy to help comment was unfortunate but she was cornered and may be someone who avoids confrontation. In fact, this must be the case or the "office gang" would not have taken full advantage of her on numerous occasions, in the first place.
OP, you must report this discrimination at once. Do not let those insufferable "mummies" off with this. Just report it to someone with proper clout. Don't agonise over the wording - just pass this information about workplace discrimination to someone in authority as soon as possible. With luck, you will catch your charming colleagues off guard. The one who brought in the cake etc will have, by now, probably passed on to the others, the good news that you were not offended.

Would she want August off though? Personally, when mine have left home, I would rather go away in June. It's not as hot to travel abroad, everywhere is less busy and, in the UK, the weather in August is usually crappy. Of course, once grandchildren come along, it's different. Everyone has their reasons for time off and they shouldn't have to put their case forward. It's the managers' fault really because they should just look in the diary and, if it's available, they should just book it regardless as to who it is.

Sorry but it should still be on a rota basis.

No one persons life trumps another

yeah, I think she is agreeing with you.

No one is OBLIGED to cover for a colleague. When a colleague has an emergency, if it is the policy of the workplace, they can ask a colleague to help out - but they have no RIGHT to receive a yes answer. It is entirely up to the person being asked if they say yes or no. And it should be recognised that this is an area of goodwill - people are more willing to say yes, if they feel the favour is reciprocated and if they feel they are not being taken advantage of.

The problem with workplaces that rely on this kind of goodwill is that there are always people who take the piss. That is why it is much better to have formalised systems for covering for these kind of emergencies which will crop up. And the workplace needs to distinguish between genuine emergencies and people who just want to slip off early. It is poor management if a situation arises where one colleague is taken advantage of and nothing is done about it....even worse if the manager is colluding in it. And the OP doesn't sound like she is able to stand up for herself....so in a workplace where the cultural norm is that there is no clear policy and action from management, selfish types will be able to thrive and exploit other colleagues who can't stand up for themselves. It is all wrong.

I fear that OP is just going to put up with it. Her response to the nastiness was totally submissive - she said she didn't mind staying and stayed late again. I can see no evidence that anything will change here. It is wrong that the OP finds herself in this position to start with, where a workplace management allows one colleague to be exploited by others.....but the OP does have to take some responsibility for expressing her disatisfaction. She has a very clear and reasonable complaint and should voice it and expect action. If she won't voice it then there won't be any action.

And to all those who think parents should be given first dibs at Christmas etc and the chance to nip off at will for stuff to do with kids - you are wrong. Unless a contract gives special rights, everyone is equal in terms of rights to holidays, time off for emergencies etc. Again, workplaces rely on goodwill between colleagues - that people help each other out, are sympathetic to each other etc - but no on one is actually entitled to being helped out by a colleague or given preference for holidays, leaving early etc. When people at work show they think they are entitled to go early or have Chritmas off, for any reason (and it's often related to kids but not always) then the goodwill is lost.....and those parents can expect to see colleagues being less not more flexible with them. For every favou you ask, I'd say be very careful to express significant thanks and to go out of your way to repay that favour.....otherwise you might find that next time the answer is 'no'. And as parents we must recognise that because little Jonny is the centre of our world and makes our lives more tricky in terms of dropping off,mpicking up, being sick, having a school play etc etc (even more so as a single parent) that is not the colleagues issue. We have chosen to be parents and we have chosn to work where we do....and it is up to us to make it work without making demands on our colleagues,mwhether or not they have children of their own. Our choices, our reesponsibilities.

Piglet I agree it should be on a rota basis - didn't make myself clear!

i agree with you chocolatewombat i fear OP will put up with this as it seems to be her against the mums and little HR back up (or if she got them involved she'd be public enemy no. 1). disgusting attitude by the mums.

Piglet I agree it should be on a rota basis - didn't make myself clear!

i agree with you chocolatewombat i fear OP will put up with this as it seems to be her against the mums and little HR back up (or if she got them involved she'd be public enemy no. 1). disgusting attitude by the mums.

I think PaulDacre's email is perfect. Please send it, chicdiana.

Sounds like the manager is hugely at fault here.

Their job is to manage the needs of the WHOLE team, and yes, that should ideally mean accommodating parents with flexitime, but also making sure that hours are made up/the piss isn't taken.

And it should also mean if you grant flexitime to one or two people, then other people should get it to visit elderly relatives/take their dog to the vet/train for a marathon. Or even just say 'Thank you Splinters, you've gone above and beyond hte past couple of weeks, why don't you clock off early on Friday?'
If you team is too under-staffed or under-productive to allow you to do that, then it has to be work to rule for everyone.

You are choosing to come early and leave late though? Just leave when your work day ends and let them carry on. The email wasn't nice, however if I was working I would need loads of time off on short notice as I have a sick child and even a cough would make me stay home with her, how do you know they haven't got children with health complications and their employer understands and accommodates this? Not sure I see any problem apart from the email being a bit rude.

The email wasn't nice, however if I was working I would need loads of time off on short notice as I have a sick child and even a cough would make me stay home with her, how do you know they haven't got children with health complications and their employer understands and accommodates this?

The entire team other than OP have children with health problems?

Sorry but I don't believe that.

How do you know the OP hasn't got health problems or reasons why they should also leave early.

Employers now by law have to consider flexible working for everyone, not just parents.

You are choosing to come early and leave late though? Just leave when your work day ends and let them carry on.

The issue is not that the op is 'choosing to leave late'. The issue is that op's workmates are using flexitime to leave early. Someone has to be in the office until the end of business hours. Everyone takes it for granted that this will be the op, without even having the courtesy to discuss it with her, and she never has the opportunity to leave early.

OP, I think you should raise this with your manager. If you send her a formal email, she can't ignore it - or if she does, you can take it further.

My manager isn't in today, but I sent around an email saying that I was going to need to leave at 4 today (I don't have to, but I think I should make a stand). Pretty much instantly everyone chirps up saying 'well, the office needs to be covered until the end of the day.' I said calmly that I have some other commitments, then one of my colleagues said that I didn't understand the situation and they need to make sure the children are picked up or they'll be arrested and a couple of the children have after school clubs they need to get to.

I apologised but did stand my ground and said that I do have other commitments, and I will be seeking legal advice. One of my colleagues say 'sorry for trying to raise the next generation' and stormed out saying that she was going to call the manager (she wasn't able to get through though, I found out). One of the others said that they do appreciate me covering but maybe if I gave more notice this would be okay. I felt like I was in a really difficult position and put on the spot, so I have agreed to stay on today, but that I could leave earlier on other days in the future. I do feel now like I should have stood my ground more, but at least they are aware that I am not always going to be staying.

Stop agreeing to do it.

The are emotionally bullying you and it has to stop.

Tell them now you aren't trying Monday and Tuesday that gives them the weekend to sort themselves out.

*staying

I apologised
so I have agreed to stay on today,

Noo! The rest was good, very good, but you can't let them emotionally blackmail you like that.

Pick one or two days next week you're happy to stay late, and email those round. The other days, you leave at four.

Sorry, that was really bossy! I meant that's what I would do.

You need to either speak to these women who have children who need to be picked up and tell them that it is not your problem about their after school pick ups/after school clubs and that other working women have to make appropriate arrangements so why shouldn't they? If they do confront you like this one woman did then tell her she is welcome to call the manager but as you sure she is well aware you have covered for all of them for years with no reciprocal arrangement (and holidays) - you could add that you are considering taking legal advice (but you've said the legal advice part already i see).,

do NOT apologise and do NOT listen to maybe if you gave more notice this would be ok - that's a MAYBE from them and is designed to shut you up.

I feel an assertiveness course (done one myself) would be great for you OP.

These are a bunch of evil harpies and this needs stamping down on immediately.

Oh yes - I would also follow up on the legal advice. I don't know if there's anything you can do legally, but I'd try my damnest. Even a solicitor's letter might give them a kick up the bum, if the solicitor can think of something to say...