to feel discriminated against at work for not having children???

[chicdiana1980]

I was accidentally copied into an email at work yesterday and I am really thinking about going to some kind of tribunal about this. I was feeling p*ssed off already but this is the tip of the iceburg!

to give you a background, I work for a fairly small company, office based. Pretty much everyone else in the office has children, and they are mostly young children. I don't have any children, and I am happy with this, but I feel like I get the brunt of it at work.

It seems like noone ever questions people when they take extra time off if they just say it's because of their children. Mostly it's leaving early pretty much every day to pick up children from school. Others who don't do this have 'parents evenings' or school plays or things, or get in late after the 'school run,' always laughing about how it's so stressful and that's I'm lucky. Sick days when the children are sick - how is this fair? Sick days are for the employee, not for employee and any family.

There has to be cover for the whole day, so it is usually me who ends up having to stay until the end, or get in early, so that someone is there. I regularly have to stay late as the colleagues who fly off at 3:30 to school leaves work that needs to be done. They say that they make it up in the mornings or at other times, but it's really no help.

Anyway, this has been going on for years now and I got to the stage where I thought I would just have to accept it as one of those things. But I was copied into an email (accidentally) which was obviously a round robin which had been going around my colleagues and the last person sent it to the entire office, not just their 'select group' (the select group being pretty much everyone but me). They were talking about who was going to be leaving early - and essentially they all were, leaving someone to say 'so who's gonna cover until the end ;),' and the last person said 'guess who. it's not like she has anything else to do anyway!'

I am seriously furious about this. I don't work Wednesdays but I am seriously considering going straight to ACAS or someone (our office is so small there is no real HR department) to make a complaint about this. I have been in tears for most of the morning - but before I do anything, would it be unreasonable to do this?

YelloDraw

I would develop a caring responsibility of your own.

"oh sorry, I've got to leave at 3 to get home for Bella"

"Bella isn't very well, can't stay late today!"

They don't need to know that Bella is your new pot plant.

THIS

Ask your manager ( the manager who was involved in the email) for a copy of the grievance policy. If asked why, say that you are considering taking out a grievance about a recent work situation.

What time are your contracted hours? I'm a bit confused as to why you have to stay late - surely you have a contracted start and end time and therefore have no need to work late to cover for them?

It seems to me you have two options, either raise it as a formal complaint and state that you will not being working past your contracted time to make up for them leaving early or you look for another job. I've worked in places before where I've been mistreated by colleagues, HR did bugger all, I'd cry in the loos at least once a week, and I eventually left to a much nicer workplace. I thoroughly sympathise

I would definitely ask to speak to your manager about it and as pp said do not make it about children v no children make it about you working harder than others for the same pay.
If you do nothing I would guess that these people will decide to take the possibility even further making your worklife even more miserable.
I think it is incredibly important to make a stand. You can be as nice as you like just make sure they realise that you will not roll over to be kicked again.

Look for another job I'd say. Then be v happy on you leaving day. Xxx

MargoChanning - OP works in an office which runs flexible time, there are core hours where everyone is expected to be in but then make up there hours (in theory) to their contracted ones. There's no contracted start/finish times in that set up, but it's usually expected that there will be cover between certain times.

Thanks Andro.

But I assume OP you are still contracted for a certain amount of hours? So you can say you are no longer willing to work unpaid extra hours? Have you ever recorded the extra hours you work and how much this adds up to? Apologies if I've misunderstood.

It's a really shitty situation but you'll need to be strong and firm about not putting up with it anymore. From my own experience, I've sadly found that unhappy workplaces rarely change and leaving is often the best option.

If you are contracted to work core hours, arrive enough every day next week so that you can leave as soon as the core hours finishe each day.

If you're not in the office, you can't be blamed for it being left unmanned.

*arrive early enough each day

icy121 don't be surprised if you look back on this thread and cringe one day. I too considered my self an 'infertile' and still feel some lingering bitterness today when I see people easily getting pregnant and so on.

Nevertheless, through IVF I have two lovely children and the fact remains that I need to be able to look after them when they are sick and so on.

'smugsters' might be annoying, but you could be in their position one day.

Parents on their own aren't the problem; it is hard being a working parent. Companies that allow taking the piss are the problem.

'smugsters' might be annoying, but you could be in their position one day.*

ffs hopeful have you forgotten how shit it is to be told "one day it could be you" when you can't get pregnant? You might have considered yourself infertile but clearly you didn't turn out to be. There are lots of us who never end up with children. You have no idea of anyone's reason for not being able to conceive. It's really unhelpful to make comments like the one you've just written.

Definitely ask to see a copy of the grievance policy please OP. This alone may shock your manager into implementing a fair rota!

I would urge you to contact acas. It's entirely free and they are wonderful.

A bit of cake and a fake apology is not enough to smooth over the contents of that email! What did the last person on the email who wrote about you not having anything better to do say?

It is ridiculous that, just because you don't have children, you should always be the one expected to stay late and cover.

You need to take this higher and insist a rota is set up where EVERYBODY has their turn covering the office after 3.30pm. This may not be discrimination but it is victimisation and bullying and you are letting them get away with it if you don't report this now.

I hope you get this sorted OP.

OP - I fully suggest you walk into work on Saturday or Tuesday glammed up and early and announce you can't possibly stay any later than 3.30pm because you have plans. As everyone has been so appreciative of you pulling them out of a hole they'll not mind sorting out cover between themselves.
At 3.30pm you walk out and do something to make yourself feel better should that being anything from a night on the town to eating ice cream on the sofa.

Hopeful - that is an awful attitude to take. Even the way you classed yourself as 'an infertile' says a lot about your views. There's a hell of a lot more to any woman than their ability to procreate.

Every sympathy here for you OP. I worked one Christmas, and expected to have the next one off, as it was my turn, but was still guilt-tripped by the "think of the children" piss-takers. Fortunately I had a better manager than yours, and they supported me in not giving in.

I think I'd have waited until everybody was in work and then punched the cake if I were in your position.

I can see where you are coming from and their email was wrong but you don't sound that sympathetic with parenting or childcare issues. IF they are picking up on this it could explain (not excuse) it.

That email was awful but I also think some of your comments are bang out of order.

With regard to other comments on here I actually do feel that some parents/carers should get first refusal for leave at Christmas.

What is a lone parent/carer supposed to do over Christmas when alternative childcare provision etc. Is closed for the holidays? Not everyone has family support.

I've worked EVERY Christmas since I was 15. I'm now 45.
I was expected to . When I was younger it didn't bother me and I had no idea that I was infertile.
Now I know for sure that I am… it's like a double punishment to be 'expected' to work then (oh and every weekend and bank hol too. Believe it or not, I don't mind working them most of the time..but it's the assumption that I should.. or that I HAVE to that stings..). I should be able to have a choice. In my mainly retail management career there's been a lot of discrimination and nasty things said over the years , as I said earlier on in this post.
Careforadrink, why should parents get first refusal?
I always, always did it willingly. But 30 years on, I'm starting to question myself. I have family too. My DP and I, we are family. 30 years is a hell of a long time for me to put strangers kids first, would they do it for me?? (the parents I mean). I think I've done my piece, somehow.
I have ageing parents too. They need me. They don't have anyone else.
Why is someone else's kids more important? The thing is, I never questioned it. I agreed but I don 't think that any more. Not now I'm older, settled with DP and now that my parents are more frail.
I left my job recently because I was told that I'd have to do every weekend because my job share has children and didn't want to do them ever again (then why take a job in retail management ? Her I mean. We were sharing them) I've done them for 30 years and it never bothered me. Until now. It's the assumption. That I should do them. More than that. in retail I never got a choice.. and I'm talking about many jobs here. So I quit my most recent job. Not because I didn't want to work every single weekend but because I am sick of being discriminated against and TOLD I will now be working every weekend because 'Susan' has children (teens by the way..not babies) and working weekends isn't right for her any more. It was not negotiable.
A month on I have no job ( but am applying) and thinking oh shit! But I can hold my head up high. I am not being bullied again because my body doesn't work in the way I want it to. Sick of being doormat / dogsbody. Sick of coming in on days off and holidays to work too at no notice because of someone's kid. And staying late. Over 30 yrs. I move around jobs, it's always same old same old whether I go. Always did willingly but always shat on for it.
In past jobs I've been told by employers/ colleagues - 'you have no proper status in society' 'people without children are selfish ' (my father said this too, knowing I am infertile) ' all childless people should cover for the parents, how can you even question it' etc. I've had years of doing 6 and 7 day weeks too because it was actually in my contract to cover if short staffed, this resulted in me sometimes doing months of 7 day weeks and getting really sick (more fool me..Never again)
Enough. At 45 I'm finally trying to get a proper life that isn't just all work work work.. I AM worth it, I am not a slave to the smugsters, you are worth it too, OP. NOT all parents are smugsters. Some of my best friends are parents. But many take the piss. Big time. And companies let them.
Time to make a stand

Careforadrink, you say not everyone has family support.

What about other family members needing help/ care, not just children?
As I said, my parents are now elderly and frail. I have no other family. So it really is down to me.. or will be as things get harder.
This is why after all these years I'm finally going to stick up for myself.
If my parents need me, I need to be there.
This is why I'm not going to work 6 and 7 day weeks anymore to cover for the parents I work with
My family matter too. I've made them low or no priority for so long as I thought it didn't matter because I was barren and worthless.
I'm really trying to change that now

alltoomuchrightnow

I was in a retail job nearly 12 years ago where it was inferred that my DH was a malingerer when he got ill. "Cant he look after himself" was the attitude. (he ended up having a heart attack) But when it was the child of any of my colleagues was ill it was never questioned. In retail there must be some special coming of age where the genuine illness of workers relatives stops and malingering starts.

Again in retail i also had trouble attending doctors appointments. I would book them for my day off but then my day off would get changed with no notice.

One of my appointments was for the contraceptive injection and i was told i may not be able to go to it even though id done them a favour going in that day as it was supposed to be my day off You also have to get Depo done in a certain window and as two other members of staff were already on maternity leave it seems to me the idiots running this place were trying to risk a hat trick.

Yet another member of staff was allowed to run out of the shop with no notice all the way to the other end of town as her husband was in a supermarket car park and couldnt collapse the buggy of his ten month old child. And was gone for half an hour. Exactly the length of time my injection would have taken!

Yeh that sums it up really, Helena :( That's awful but sadly I'm not surprised. Really sorry to hear about your DP.
As I said.. one of the reasons why I'm trying to toughen up now. No shitty job is worth shitting on my family for.. I have neglected them not because I was being a martyr but in most jobs I was literally TOLD, I HAD to cover for anyone with child issues.

I had a medical procedure earlier this year related to my infertility and was told that I HAD to be back a few days later. They made me take the sick leave as holiday and I said I might be too unwell/ sore to be back that early.
'Well you can just sit at the till' ,the branch manager said, knowing full well I couldn't (busy charity shop, have to take in donations etc, backbreaking work) because 'Susan' is having childcare issues. Yes I did go back and got no thanks and was in a lot of pain.
'Susan' took time off every week without fail, often at no notice at all. I always covered for her no matter what. She always got paid in full (I know this as we were friends). Yet when I was sick I had to take it as holiday.
When I had pet emergencies or family I was not allowed time off -
I could not go to DP's sister's funeral this summer (she was my close friend too) That was the last straw really..even before the 'you have to work every weekend now because you don't have kids'. There was no cover.. ' 'Susan' cannot cover for you because she has children'…(and BM gave the same reason for herself.. even though hers are in their 20s!!! yep! 'my daughter needs me' she said)
So because of others childcare I was not allowed to go to the funeral unless it was 'just for two hours' knowing full well I had to travel to the other end of the country for it (five hour drive each way)
I still feel really depressed and angry re this job but it does sum up every one I've had.
but maybe did me a favour too as it's taken me all these years to come to a head and realise I won't put up with it again!

Oh and I've never, ever in a retail job, been allowed to take time off for a medical appointment. It HAD to be on my day off (not always possible) or taken as holiday. Yet collegues with kids could take paid time off for non emergencies every time.
So yes.. there is some bitterness there!

alltoomuchrightnow. You sound thoroughly fucked off and i dont blame you. And YY its not always possible to only do appointments on your day off. When i was on Depo it had to be done when it was due There was a five day window but my next day off wouldnt be until seven days later and then they would change it again.

A small point i know but the retail sector need to get to grips with the fact that the NHS isnt run for their benefit or to suit their timetable.

You get an appointment when there is one available.

alltoomuchrightnow You have been treated like shit and I am angry on your behalf!
I currently have to work late on Tuesday nights, and every 4th Weds night (meetings) and I always ensure I organise childcare in advance because that was what I knew I would have to do when I took the job.
I hope you find a new job that treats you the way you deserve soon!
OP YANBU too.

With regard to other comments on here I actually do feel that some parents/carers should get first refusal for leave at Christmas.

Because no one else has a life do they? Sarah in accounts can work every Christmas as she has no DC. Ridiculous

Hopeful That is a pretty nasty thing to say.