to feel discriminated against at work for not having children???

[chicdiana1980]

I was accidentally copied into an email at work yesterday and I am really thinking about going to some kind of tribunal about this. I was feeling p*ssed off already but this is the tip of the iceburg!

to give you a background, I work for a fairly small company, office based. Pretty much everyone else in the office has children, and they are mostly young children. I don't have any children, and I am happy with this, but I feel like I get the brunt of it at work.

It seems like noone ever questions people when they take extra time off if they just say it's because of their children. Mostly it's leaving early pretty much every day to pick up children from school. Others who don't do this have 'parents evenings' or school plays or things, or get in late after the 'school run,' always laughing about how it's so stressful and that's I'm lucky. Sick days when the children are sick - how is this fair? Sick days are for the employee, not for employee and any family.

There has to be cover for the whole day, so it is usually me who ends up having to stay until the end, or get in early, so that someone is there. I regularly have to stay late as the colleagues who fly off at 3:30 to school leaves work that needs to be done. They say that they make it up in the mornings or at other times, but it's really no help.

Anyway, this has been going on for years now and I got to the stage where I thought I would just have to accept it as one of those things. But I was copied into an email (accidentally) which was obviously a round robin which had been going around my colleagues and the last person sent it to the entire office, not just their 'select group' (the select group being pretty much everyone but me). They were talking about who was going to be leaving early - and essentially they all were, leaving someone to say 'so who's gonna cover until the end ;),' and the last person said 'guess who. it's not like she has anything else to do anyway!'

I am seriously furious about this. I don't work Wednesdays but I am seriously considering going straight to ACAS or someone (our office is so small there is no real HR department) to make a complaint about this. I have been in tears for most of the morning - but before I do anything, would it be unreasonable to do this?

Yes, I heard about that. I do actually have children, but was without them for a long time and even now hate the fact that there is such smug entitlement by some parents.

As someone said upthread OPs colleagues are giving all working mothers a bad name.

zeek, grownup etc - I HATE the smugness! It's so appalling. Am a natural barren myself, currently in v early pregnancy with an IVF FET following 3 years of trying, tears and £15k. I will never be an entitled person like the women in the office, or some of the smugsters posting here. It honestly makes me feel physically sick when pregnant women/parents act all importantly just because they have offspring - because those who behave in such a way are the ones to whom it came easily and therefore have done the least to deserve it!

I totally get the OPs angry comments, I feel them myself. That sort of treatment related to having/not having children causes a very specific bitterness which I can only akin to how people must feel when they're on the receiving end of racism or sexism, and that isn't why the OP asked whether it's discrimination; namely you're being treated differently and - crucially - worse because of one facet of your life which is different to theirs.

In many ways this infertility has been the making of me. I'm a much better person for it.

Ooh! Potential to out-smug the smug entitled parents! If anyone ever says "non parents don't know what true love is" the answer is "people who haven't struggled to have children can't ever understand what true longing is, and therefore infertile people with children or without have far more capacity for loving others because they know what it's like when it's not easy. They're also less likely to be cunts in the workplace".

Grr still angry about this thread. OP what did you do today??

I don't get the whole "parents get priority" thing - everyone has a private life and demands on their time. Sure, there are times when for eg if your kid has puked all over the teacher then you have to go and sort it out, but that doesn't mean you are an inherently more important person - it's just that you have a domestic crisis to deal with and a domestic crisis eg a boiler breaking or a roof leaking can happen to anyone and a decent employer will have a strategy to deal with that without causing ill feeling. I am horrified at some of the stories on here!

It all comes down to other issues too... There's a legal sec in our office who started before me but after a year or 2 got pregnant had a baby then had maternity leave and the year off, then after that year off wangled working from home 5 days a week as she was best friends with boss' wife. A few other secs wanted to do WFH one day or so a week but their requests were refused. She then got pregnant about 2 years after 1st DC was born so WFH again. She now appears only to do work in mornings and no other time, we've got no idea but not our business if she's on a full time perm salary (I suspect so or at least half). I'm not that bothered as only been there just under a year and intend to leave soon anyway but a few other secs are definitely and quite outspokenly jealous of the fact that the WFH woman has got special treatment and what does she do all day?? She now replaces a role in a sense when one legal sec left and wasn't replaced but only does that part time. And we have to put together docs for her too.

What was amazing with this woman is she found the time to jog and run the London marathon this year (kept it quiet) and did very well in it. So she has time to train as well as Sahm/w duties!

We are all anonymous here so I can say that part of my anger arises from the misery of my niece who at 42 has had to accept that what she most wanted out of life, a baby, is not going to happen - and had horror stories like the OP's of being treated as backup by people who had children.

Yes. I expect there are many of us childless women who could tell of this society's casual cruelty towards us.

I have a child, have nobody except for me and DH (when he's not travelling) to sort out any issues which arise outside the normal school/childminder schedule. I would never ever expect my colleagues to pick up the slack just because they have no children or families to go to. At work we are all equal and I expect no concessions just because I have a child.
We can all have urgent stuff in our lives, things to sort out. It's not fair on you.

"non parents don't know what true love is" the answer is "people who haven't struggled to have children can't ever understand what true longing is, and therefore infertile people with children or without have far more capacity for loving others because they know what it's like when it's not easy. They're also less likely to be cunts in the workplace.

Or the alternative is "Stop talking bollocks you smug cunt."
Or maybe "Ah - you're one of those people who just fell on a cock and 9 months later you and hubby had an ickle bubs."

Some people have literally no idea what it can be like. They're usually the kind of people who say stuff like "If I couldn't have my own kids I'd just adopt." Or "Why are you on MUMSnet if you're not a mum?"

Yes I am projecting a bit. Yes I do sound a bit bitter.

One of the people on the email thread must have noticed that I was copied in as they had a cake out for me when I arrived this morning. They kept saying that they really appreciated my work - they said that they had meant to send the email to me and it was all part of a joke which they forgot to explain and blamed the misunderstanding on 'baby brain' on their part (their common excuse for work f-ups too, despite the fact that all their children are at least 2 now). They said that they are sure that I understand how difficult it is to be flexible with time when they have children to collect and look after and they appreciate me covering when necessary. I just said I am happy to help, which was probably the wrong thing to say (kicking myself now) but it's all I could think to say in the moment.

They were out the door again by 4 this afternoon and I had to stay on later to cover the work - they did thank me for staying on this time, but commented that they were off to their 'second job' with a smug laugh. I feel like I should have said something but I can just see it going down really badly. I would have left too but someone needs to be there and I can see that I would get the brunt of it if the office was left unattended - as I am always the one staying late the others would just say they 'assumed' that I was going to be there and I would be asked why I left.

Does the office genuinely have to be attended until a certain time? I'm assuming it does but is this actually a clear company policy / clear opening hours? As in, if you all left at 4 would management be unhappy?

Apologies if you've already said this and if it sounds goady as I really don't intend it to be.

I can't believe they think a cake might make up for that shitty email!

Whilst most people would look at caring responsibilities as being for a child, for some without school age children (or none at all), anyone could be caring for an elderly relative. So the presumption that a childless person has no caring responsibilities is unreasonable, and probably in extreme cases is a form of discrimination.

I'd also be concerned at people who cannot correctly send emails in the workplace, as to their ability to maintain confidentiality when it matters.

Do not be fobbed off by that.

Leave BEFORE them tomorrow. This is ridiculous.

I've just read your update OP. I don't mean to sound harsh but their actions are those of people who have been caught out. They are panicking that you saw the email. They realise that they have it easy and that it depends upon your goodwill, hence the cake and the appreciation. They lied to your face about the "joke". Do they really think that people are so easily fooled? And then they did as they always did, left the office early leaving you to do all the work from 4pm. But that's ok ...because it's situation normal. None of this is because you are appreciated ( although you certainly deserve to be!). It's because their lives will get more difficult without you to do all this. Please call them out on it. You did the late today. Leave early tomorrow and Saturday.

A fucking cake!

Pisstakers the lot of them. Time to rush up the old CV and see what the grass is like elsewhere. If you get a new job that works, bravo. If they get wind, then maybe they might stop ripping the piss. I do however doubt the latter.

Which if she was the last one in the office, and just 'left' could also land OP in a lot of trouble

Well the OP needs to make sure she is acting within work policies and has evidence of this. The lack of cover is a management issue, not the OP's responsibility. So it needs to be put back onto management. If this means the OP going once she's done her contracted hours and not covering other people then so be it. If someone kicks off she should then be able to point out that she hasn't broken any of the company's policies.

It's probably best if before she does this she has flagged the issue up and since her manager is involved, this needs to be flagged up to the manager's manager. Once they've been made aware of the problem, that's it, it's theirs. I may be a bit bitter and pissed off with poor management!

I agree with Durhamgal
They're worried that you'll make a formal complaint. They're despicable. Don't let it drop.

OP
They are back pedalling frantically!! Hilarious to think of their horror when they found out they had suffered a bout of the stupidand included you. Idiots.
Still, the cake and stuff is lame. What a cheek they think that will mollify you. More stupid.
Just do one thing: leave BEFORE them from now on.

Yep. Formal complaint must be pursued. They are running scared.

My team of 10 people. I have dd 8, I have 3 colleagues with preschoolers, 2 without kids and no plans and the others are hoping to have kids. We all do required hours and pay for childcare. Equal flexibility goes to all staff

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Are you being paid for all the hours you work? If not, are you recording these extra hours?

You need to talk to your manager about who gets to leave early when someone needs to be in the office-the default shouldn't be you.

1. Forward the email to HR and ask for a meeting
2. Next week pull a sickie
3. Have the meeting and watch the terrible person who sent it get apprehended
4. Feel smug
5. Don't ever stay later than you need to to cover his/her wanky arse again.