to feel discriminated against at work for not having children???

[chicdiana1980]

I was accidentally copied into an email at work yesterday and I am really thinking about going to some kind of tribunal about this. I was feeling p*ssed off already but this is the tip of the iceburg!

to give you a background, I work for a fairly small company, office based. Pretty much everyone else in the office has children, and they are mostly young children. I don't have any children, and I am happy with this, but I feel like I get the brunt of it at work.

It seems like noone ever questions people when they take extra time off if they just say it's because of their children. Mostly it's leaving early pretty much every day to pick up children from school. Others who don't do this have 'parents evenings' or school plays or things, or get in late after the 'school run,' always laughing about how it's so stressful and that's I'm lucky. Sick days when the children are sick - how is this fair? Sick days are for the employee, not for employee and any family.

There has to be cover for the whole day, so it is usually me who ends up having to stay until the end, or get in early, so that someone is there. I regularly have to stay late as the colleagues who fly off at 3:30 to school leaves work that needs to be done. They say that they make it up in the mornings or at other times, but it's really no help.

Anyway, this has been going on for years now and I got to the stage where I thought I would just have to accept it as one of those things. But I was copied into an email (accidentally) which was obviously a round robin which had been going around my colleagues and the last person sent it to the entire office, not just their 'select group' (the select group being pretty much everyone but me). They were talking about who was going to be leaving early - and essentially they all were, leaving someone to say 'so who's gonna cover until the end ;),' and the last person said 'guess who. it's not like she has anything else to do anyway!'

I am seriously furious about this. I don't work Wednesdays but I am seriously considering going straight to ACAS or someone (our office is so small there is no real HR department) to make a complaint about this. I have been in tears for most of the morning - but before I do anything, would it be unreasonable to do this?

First post woot!

Tbh, I have experienced this selfish attitude both sides at work before. People with children and people who don't have them. It's the entitled behaviour regardless of what stuff they have that gets me.

I am not sure it was at all great to bash people with kids, but I can see why you did. As a person who might not be able to have children it would irk me too. What you need to focus on is not that they are using this time for their children but that they treated you with a total lack of respect and just expect you to pick up their mess regardless.

Hope you got this sorted, will watch this with interest. I thankfully don't have this at the mo in my team and I am bloody grateful!

YANBU.

I am in a similar situation. Everyone else is always off doing kid stuff, or because their kid is ill and it's great we have an understanding employer but what about the rest of us?

I recently asked to reduce my hours to a four day week. I was refused. However, at least 70% of the office is part time or on flexible hours. I was told when I queried it that it's because they have children. I know this is discrimination but I can't exactly fight it as it would make life very unpleasant for me at work.

Sometimes I think about having a baby just so I can have a year off and leave at 430!

heron did they actually put this refusal and that reason in writing?

And one last thought comes to my mind......is the reason you are upset because of the email being nasty about you (understandable that you'd be upset over this) rather than the picking up the slack?

Except that the nasty comment contributes towards the creation of a "hostile workplace." The two are connected.

I try to work as a member of a team, but there are limits to covering one's colleagues for whatever reason. We're currently dealing with a difficult case of a colleague's chronic, but unpredictable illness. The rest of us are picking up the slack, but this relies on us maintaining our own physical/mental health.

OP I think you need to start saying "No" occasionally, and keep a record of when you do work in lieu of others. If you are called on this, you will have a record of how you are doing your fair share, but you will no longer cover for others.

You note that there's flexi time, but that your colleagues appear to falsify the records. I'm appalled by this, and in your place - gosh, I think I'd be looking for another job.

Unfortunately as other posters have advised, you can't really comment on others' bad/cheating work practices. But you can keep records of your own.

Good luck - in my view, you're working in quite a hostile workplace. Unfortunately thie kind of discrimination you are subjected to, is not a protected characteristic, so you'll need to find other ways of making it very clear how unfair (even fraudulent) your colleagues are being.

I am not sure it was at all great to bash people with kids

I think the OP's colleagues "bashed" her because she doesn't have children, rather than the reverse!

I'm wondering how OP's day is going, I hope you managed to get some sleep.

I have been in a similar situation to the OP before now.
Once I was working between Christmas & New Year. There were only 3 of us in that day, no management was there (this was a sizeable council department and they'd ALL booked leave and left us three to run the whole office. We were all fairly junior.
I was answering the phones and the Chief Exec called, wanting to speak to a manager. He was not at all impressed that we'd been left to run the office - we were all capable, but he felt that we should have had back-up. I happened to agree with him and although I know it's a bit spiteful I still felt quite pleased that they'd all been found out.

Good luck today OP

Have only read the start of the thread so far but feel sufficiently incensed to comment now. Absolutely report it. There must be someone who is not directly involved in this cosy little set-up, who will be very interested to know about this case of discrimination.
Get union advice, too.

When I was young, unmarried, no kids, I often worked the Xmas/NY's period along with other junior staff. We loved it! It was such a quiet time with very little work to do and no supervision. The easiest days of the year to work! We could then use our precious vacation days later when flights were cheaper and the work was peaking.

I realise this won't suit all, but sometimes there is a bright side.

Also, I think the lack of respect and consideration for the OP is appalling, but some comments on this, very long, thread are concerning. I don't think children should be seen as a lifestyle choice. I do think as a society we should support families because children need families to grow and thrive. Even if we don't choose to have children, we were all once children and will someday depend upon the adults they grow up to be.

Haven't RTFT.

It's not a tribunal case because there is no discrimination of a protected characteristic.

There is potentially a grievance here. Forget all the parent/non parent stuff. That's not relevant. What's relevant is that an employee perceives she is carrying an unfair burden of work and time commitment compared to others in the team. That's not on, and there has to be a fairer distribution of work. Keep all talk of non work commitments out of the discussion.

Even if we don't choose to have children

Tbh that is as bad as saying 'children are a lifestyle choice'

Some people can't have children. There is no 'choice' about it.

Some people can't have children. There is no 'choice' about it.

Indeed.

Which is why there must be appropriate work/life balance for everyone. Appropriate in this case means:
fair
equitable
transparent
open for discussion

My managerial approach is that "family friendly' workplaces must work for everyone as everyone has a family

I do think as a society we should support families

Yes, but who is society and how should society support families?

If "society" is your colleagues who have no children or grown-up children and "supporting" means taking all or more of the lates, earlies, weekends, nights, Christmasses. in a job which requires them to be worked - No. They have their private lives and you have yours.

I do think as a society we should support families

I have a family-why is it less important because I don't have children?

Some people can't have children. There is no 'choice' about it.

But there is for many of us, and that's clearly what the poster was referring to. What a bizarre comment.

But there is for many of us, and that's clearly what the poster was referring to. What a bizarre comment.

Not a bizarre comment at all.

Indeed PurpleDaisies and if you have no family, nobody related to you blood or marriage or partnership, your private life still amtters as much as anybody else's.

RedJellyCrush I am nervous about "appropriate". Some people will argue that it is "appropriate" for parents to have the first call on free weekends, not doing the Christmas shift, leave in August. it's not. They must take their equal share.

"My managerial approach is that "family friendly' workplaces must work for everyone as everyone has a family"

I cannot think of a better way to state the policy or to run a work place, RedJellyCrush!

It's people like the OP's colleagues who make life very difficult for working mothers, I think. I think generally most people are understanding that children get sick and childcare emergencies happen and that you can't leave a sick child alone. At least it was when I was working (wasn't a parent then, but worked with people who were). No resentment if X was working at home because her nanny was ill, or if Y went home early to pick up his kids because his wife was ill. Where resentment comes, I think is where people want to be paid for a full time job but can't actually commit the time to do it. So - I had one colleague who applied for two days working at home. But she was obviously swinging the lead (most obviously when I heard her booking a Friday - Monday weekend away for one of her "working weeks") and that did cause some bad feeling. I think it's about balance, to be honest - and the OP doesn't seem to have that.

Your colleagues are taking the piss and your manager is poor. The insulting email is the icing on the cake and if I were you I would absolutely be taking this further.

If the office has to be manned in certain hours and everyone can take flexitime, then there has to be some kind of schedule put in place. I would suggest this to your manager as a way of moving forward.

If your manager refuses to put in a schedule, then I would be leaving at 3:30 every day. It is not up to you to make sure that the office is manned - it is up to your manager.

Make sure you set out your case in email and save all communications locally so that they don't go "missing" from the email server in case you need to get a lawyer on it later.

Seems to boil down to poor management. There will always be the potential for bad feelings, unfairness, selfish behaviour wherever a group of people work together. I thought the reasons managers were paid more was to 'manage' the people/situation? It's their responsibility to ensure matters don't get to this state, but as we all know there are MANY crappy 'managers' out there who don't deserve their title.

What has happened today, OP?

I wonder what would happen if OP wrote this.

"Dear Manager

I have volunteered to work in a shelter for the homeless/abused women and children from 17:00 four days a week from 15 November. You will, I hope, appreciate that this is an important contribution to society and, as I do not have children to feed and care for, I am better placed than many to fulfill this function. I am therefore requesting permission to leave work at 16:00 each day, and will adjust my starting time accordingly. "

Nice to see all the usual cliches about why parents are more important than non-parents come out again.

Can play a nice game of bingo with these threads.

If you check out the childfree board on Reddit they have an actual bingo board with responses people give when you don't have children. You'll change your mind, it's different when it's your own, etc.

How are you feeling OP now that you've been in work? Hope it was ok