to feel discriminated against at work for not having children???

[chicdiana1980]

I was accidentally copied into an email at work yesterday and I am really thinking about going to some kind of tribunal about this. I was feeling p*ssed off already but this is the tip of the iceburg!

to give you a background, I work for a fairly small company, office based. Pretty much everyone else in the office has children, and they are mostly young children. I don't have any children, and I am happy with this, but I feel like I get the brunt of it at work.

It seems like noone ever questions people when they take extra time off if they just say it's because of their children. Mostly it's leaving early pretty much every day to pick up children from school. Others who don't do this have 'parents evenings' or school plays or things, or get in late after the 'school run,' always laughing about how it's so stressful and that's I'm lucky. Sick days when the children are sick - how is this fair? Sick days are for the employee, not for employee and any family.

There has to be cover for the whole day, so it is usually me who ends up having to stay until the end, or get in early, so that someone is there. I regularly have to stay late as the colleagues who fly off at 3:30 to school leaves work that needs to be done. They say that they make it up in the mornings or at other times, but it's really no help.

Anyway, this has been going on for years now and I got to the stage where I thought I would just have to accept it as one of those things. But I was copied into an email (accidentally) which was obviously a round robin which had been going around my colleagues and the last person sent it to the entire office, not just their 'select group' (the select group being pretty much everyone but me). They were talking about who was going to be leaving early - and essentially they all were, leaving someone to say 'so who's gonna cover until the end ;),' and the last person said 'guess who. it's not like she has anything else to do anyway!'

I am seriously furious about this. I don't work Wednesdays but I am seriously considering going straight to ACAS or someone (our office is so small there is no real HR department) to make a complaint about this. I have been in tears for most of the morning - but before I do anything, would it be unreasonable to do this?

Fair point, Dragonbait.

Oh - re. replying with someone's user name - this site doesn't have a facility to do this - I put names in bold (by putting an asterisk before and after the name), so people can see when I am replying to them. If you scroll down from th box you type your post in, there's a section called Emphasis which explains how to bold, italicise or underline things on here.

Dragonbait - many organisations are client facing and need bums on seats in the office. Mine does, so flexible working isn't a wide option as there is a coverage requirement. We do it but it needs a fair bit of management to keep it balanced and make sure that everyone feels accommodated.

Genius - thanks! I will get the hang of this!

You're welcome!

I'm confused, if u don't have children why r u on MUMSNET?
I would be pissed off too re the snidy email. For people to assume, u don't have commitments out of work, purely on bases you don't have children, is out of order. I would take this further if there is a consistency in the same people not staying late.
However as a parent who used to feel like you pre-kids I can see both sides.
Slightly annoyed at your assumption that parents are taking sick leave because their children are sick.
FYI if my children are sick I can't take it as sick it's Unpaid leave.
Also when leaving work only have a set time to collect children from childcare provider before being charged late fees. It's worse at school as parents can be prosecuted for consistently collecting their children late- it's considered neglect in eyes of law- extreme I know but it's just to give u an insight as to why your colleagues are leaving early.
I feel penalised BECAUSE I'm a parent- I dont get told info because I wasn't in that day, or snidy comments that I'm leaving on time days I work. I would like to stay behind to help & contribute but I HAVE to leave so it's financially feasible to work & benefit from it.
That said it does appear the other side of the coin u r being descriminates again because u don't have children. I moan about my commitments but it's not your problem we as parents chose to have children. If u weren't aware of some issues faced by parents when they leave work perhaps u do now. Perhaps venting about parents issues in a derogatory way on a parents forum is not the best idea.
But please take this further if u feel
So unhappy at work. I have been in similar situation & know how unhappy work can be if u feel isolated at work
Hope u get it sorted tho- take care

Ok so don't respond to the email- THEIR being unprofessional/descriminative. Copy, save
&make hard copies. Take this to above ur manager as their inc too.
Didn't know manager was inc too. So unprofessional.maybe highlight your own workload & not mention other people allow for above management to draw their own conclusions. If your with a union talk to them or citizens advice.

I'm confused, if u don't have children why r u on MUMSNET?

If you want people to read your wall of text, don't start it by being a dick.

Everyone's welcome here, whether they're a parent or not.

I get why people think that me and Panda and others are wrong. Even though we have stated that the workmates acted very poorly.

But the OPs misogyny was deleted. And apologized for. I'm sceptical and think that her misogyny and feelings about mothers leaks out at work as well, as it did here.

We only ever have the OPs words and their attitude. The words here seem reasonable. The attitude towards the workmates is too. The misogyny and contempt for motherhood, less so.

'I'm confused, if u don't have children why r u on MUMSNET?`. Oh good, this again. Well of course I can't answer for the OP, but iklelis83, if you could stretch your imagination, you might fathom the notion that there are posters on here who want to have children, who are TTC, who have lost babies. Then there are posters who work in childcare. Or who just like MN. I personally fall into the 5 miscarriages / currently ttc category. Am I allowed to post on MUMSNET? FFS.

u r being descriminates again

You

Are

It's just a couple of extra keystrokes. Not hard.

why on Mumsnet if no kids??
Well.. Telly Addicts is not kids related. Nor eBay. Nor Style and Beauty. etc etc etc.
I only joined MN when I was going to be a step mum (I ended up not marrying due to domestic abuse, but his son was in my life for years)
and I discovered a whole wealth of info and chat beside child issues. I've had so many q's answered re books/ travel/ beauty/ employment / etc etc. When I left domestic violence I doubt I'd have got through it without some of the support I found on here.
Again.. none of this was child related.

Why r u on MUMSNET?

This is a site only for MUMS? I'm so sorry I didn't realise. Oops, my bad. Perhaps you ought to message HQ and instruct them to remove all non-mums related topics.

I'm confused, if u don't have children why r u on MUMSNET?

That little gem again...

" It's worse at school as parents can be prosecuted for consistently collecting their children late- it's considered neglect in eyes of law- extreme I know but it's just to give u an insight as to why your colleagues are leaving early."

But if they have double committed - work and childcare, then yes of course as a one off being there for your child wins. But it's not your work's responsibility to allow paid time off to care for your child on a routine basis. I'm amazed anyone thinks it is!

I assume she wouldn't be able to leave at the same time as her colleague, if that meant the office was left uncovered

Well she could just go, unless she's the manager in charge of making sure the office is covered. It seems that she's taking it on because she feels it's her responsibility but unless she's in some way contracted for it, I'd just go.

Well she could just go

Which if she was the last one in the office, and just 'left' could also land OP in a lot of trouble.

I started reading Mumsnet when we started looking into buying our dog, then the property threads when we were buying our house and now the weight loss threads to get rid of the stone that has crept on in the last year.

MrsTerryPratchett I don't think anyone is saying that her post which was removed wasn't out of order and she has apologised. Trust me when I said similar to what's been quoted since (I didn't see the original post) after being told I was a lesser person for not having kids even though I know that's lies and what I was saying was nasty and mean. It's just so hurtful to be told you are somehow less than a normal person because you can't or haven't got kids. I think it's something a lot of people don't realise.

And I think I double posted - sorry!

I'm sceptical and think that her misogyny and feelings about mothers leaks out at work as well, as it did here.

And where do you think that anger comes from...?

You have a poor manager.

Parents do need flexibility but your colleagues attitude towards you is unacceptable.

Whatever happens, I'd start looking for a new job.

I am of the view that an employer asked to agree a flexible arrangement should not even ask why the employee wants it - then there can be no temptation to compare that person's reasons with another's.

Good luck OP and don't do anything until you have printed off that email and made plenty of copies. Forward it to your personal account and put a copy of the print in the snail-mail to yourself at home.

I have experienced this most of my working life, just some examples that spring to mind;

Wasn't allowed to book school holidays or Christmas without checking with the parents in my team if they "needed" it

Having to cover when they arrived late, left early, took long lunches, called in to say they couldn't come in due to X/Y/Z. No one asked me if I minded covering, it was just assumed

Having my leave cancelled and given to a "parent" as she needed it more than me

Using "working from home" to not come in but being unable to get hold of them the entire day - never got questioned

I soon decided fuck this, and left the team and moved to another team that was more male dominated. However, three of the team had children and they were just as bad!

However they are far more aware that I won't put up with this whole "I am a parent and therefore more entitled" attitude that some people seem to have. If I want holiday in term time, I book it - it is first come first served. If I want Christmas off, we discuss it and come up with a fair system - despite my boss once telling me well so and so has children you don't so they really should get priority - erm no!

Despite the team I am in now being slightly better than my previous, the three with children literally divy up the school holidays between them

You work with entitled parents OP, unless you make a stand they will continue to walk all over you.

Oh yes, the year when (being still single and unattached) I had to make a scene to get a week off in August to go to the Three Choirs Festival.

Couldn't you go some other time?

Er, no, that's when it was held.

People with children really need to have leave when their children are not at school!

People who plan to take their holiday at an event need to have leave when it happens. I took the rest of my leave in term-time.

In the end I got my leave but it should not have involved an argument.

My husband is a teacher so if we want to go on holiday together it can't be term time. I still got guilt tripped about taking time off during August. Apparently it "wasn't as important" for us to have time off parents spending time with their children. Managers should not be judging the value of what people want to do outside work, just sorting out fair allocation of leave so most people are happy.

"put a copy of the print in the snail-mail to yourself at home."
I realise this isn't really the most important part of the thread but why? :o surely she can just print it and take it home!