to feel discriminated against at work for not having children???

[chicdiana1980]

I was accidentally copied into an email at work yesterday and I am really thinking about going to some kind of tribunal about this. I was feeling p*ssed off already but this is the tip of the iceburg!

to give you a background, I work for a fairly small company, office based. Pretty much everyone else in the office has children, and they are mostly young children. I don't have any children, and I am happy with this, but I feel like I get the brunt of it at work.

It seems like noone ever questions people when they take extra time off if they just say it's because of their children. Mostly it's leaving early pretty much every day to pick up children from school. Others who don't do this have 'parents evenings' or school plays or things, or get in late after the 'school run,' always laughing about how it's so stressful and that's I'm lucky. Sick days when the children are sick - how is this fair? Sick days are for the employee, not for employee and any family.

There has to be cover for the whole day, so it is usually me who ends up having to stay until the end, or get in early, so that someone is there. I regularly have to stay late as the colleagues who fly off at 3:30 to school leaves work that needs to be done. They say that they make it up in the mornings or at other times, but it's really no help.

Anyway, this has been going on for years now and I got to the stage where I thought I would just have to accept it as one of those things. But I was copied into an email (accidentally) which was obviously a round robin which had been going around my colleagues and the last person sent it to the entire office, not just their 'select group' (the select group being pretty much everyone but me). They were talking about who was going to be leaving early - and essentially they all were, leaving someone to say 'so who's gonna cover until the end ;),' and the last person said 'guess who. it's not like she has anything else to do anyway!'

I am seriously furious about this. I don't work Wednesdays but I am seriously considering going straight to ACAS or someone (our office is so small there is no real HR department) to make a complaint about this. I have been in tears for most of the morning - but before I do anything, would it be unreasonable to do this?

I am going to sleep on it, but it is going to be very difficult going in tomorrow. The whole thing has been racing through my head all day so I doubt I'll get any sleep tonight. I would like to do the 'reply all' thing that a few people have mentioned but I just don't know if I would have the courage to do that. It has been interesting to read what everyone thinks

Hi OP

Sorry you've had some crappy replies on here. Just ignore the likes of BeMorePanda... clearly cut from the same cloth as your shitty colleagues.

Agree with peeps advising you to print out the evidence and also send copies to your private email....don't let the message go mysteriously missing.

In your position I would consult an employment lawyer before taking any action or making any comment. Your manager was party to the exchange, therefore endorsing the behaviour. That means there is a whole shit-storm of tribunals for discrimination and workplace bullying that you could potentially bring down upon them, and I hope that you do. (Also if anyone spots their cock up and raises it with you in the meantime, tell them you are consulting a lawyer, let them squirm).

For the ill informed above....sick days are for your own sickness only not for care of others. At most blue chips, scamming sick leave to look after ill kids is a disciplinary offence, and I have seen this policy put into action in the past at one company and a formal warning issued to the offending parent.

One last piece of advice....they have acted appallingly, and probably illegally on the part of your manager. You are understandably v upset and angry. Try to remain calm and consider your actions carefully and with the right advice. Don't get mad, get even and take em to the cleaners.

Good luck!

Good advice from Whizzbang. Good luck OP.

I used to work in a team where I was the only woman without children. 5 years of covering last-minute requests to leave early for GP appointments, ballet, parents evening and so on. Being the last one to put holiday in the diary because I was quite willing to be flexible and work around hot spots like half term, school holidays, inset days, Easter and Christmas. I was always the one that stayed back late to allow others to go - and I did so quite willingly because they were grateful for the flexibility and I was happy to help them out.

Until the year that my Mum was diagnosed with a life limiting illness. My Dad was devastated and both parents decided that they wanted to go on holiday whilst DM was still able to travel. They wanted me to go with them so that we could spend time together and we hadn't holidayed together since I was in my teens. There was also a practical side; I could help my Dad with caring for DM and give him a bit of respite so that he could have a break as well.

I asked for the leave and was given it. The other women in the team then lodged a formal complaint because it transpired that it was half-term week (I hadn't realised at the time) and they didn't think it was appropriate that a non-parent be allowed to take leave during that week. My Manager then changed her mind and rejected my leave request, on the basis that I wasn't allowed it because I didn't have kids. It was the first time I'd ever asked for leave during a school break, so the issue had never come up before.

So I complained back and pointed out that this was discrimination. That regardless of whether I had children or not, I should be allowed to apply for leave in line with company policy - which didn't say anything about school holidays only being reserved for parents! I told my Manager that I'd raise a formal grievance with HR if necessary. At this point she thought better of it and I was allowed to take the leave.

The next thing I did was find another job and my leaving date was right at the start of the school holidays. Which apparently caused the most almighty bunfight but I confess to skipping out the door and thinking 'fuck you' as I did. You reap what you sow.

Most people are happy to be flexible and helpful until you start taking them for granted and expecting them to do so.

You mention flexi time OP, and that people can leave at 3.30 if they arrive at say 7.30am instead of working 9.00-5.00. When you mention time sheets does that mean that they are arriving long after 7.30 but still leaving at 3.30?

Is there any way you could have a couple of weeks doing 7.30-3.30 instead of 9-5? If you're clearly already there when others arrive you can legitimately leave earlier than them. It means an earlier start for you but think of the extra time in the evening you'd have!

OP I know it's easy for me to say but try not to take the negative feelings out on yourself. You are not in the wrong here. Your colleagues have an attitude that is both unprofessional and unpleasant, aand it sounds like this state of affairs is largely down to shit management. It is perfectly possible to have a work environment that is flexible and recognises the needs of all employees and which treats all employees fairly, whether they are parents or not. I'm sorry that your employer hasn't provided that. It sucks.

OP I think YANBU. Make sure you have a personal copy of that email thread, as chances are it may be deleted from the network. At least if you have a copy you can decide what action you want to take.

*You mention flexi time OP, and that people can leave at 3.30 if they arrive at say 7.30am instead of working 9.00-5.00. When you mention time sheets does that mean that they are arriving long after 7.30 but still leaving at 3.30?

Is there any way you could have a couple of weeks doing 7.30-3.30 instead of 9-5? If you're clearly already there when others arrive you can legitimately leave earlier than them. It means an earlier start for you but think of the extra time in the evening you'd have!*

The 'core hours' of flexitime are 1030-330, so in theory everyone should be 'in work' during these hours, and can arrange the other hours as they wish before/after this.

The whole flexitime thing is a bit of a nightmare as it has provided no benefit to me and everyone else just abuses it, putting full days on the time sheet when they were only there from 9-3, or 'working from home' for the afternoon or the whole day, which is all very well for them but there still needs to be someone in. My manager is no help as she usually just flies in for half an hour then usually leaves early or works from home. The company has two offices and she is technically the manager for both but she spends most of the time in the other office. I'm not really the next most senior but I have been at the company for a while so most of the stuff just falls to me by default when she is not there.

They sound like a bunch of smug, entitled, piss-taking, lazy arse holes!

Please report this.

Please make them actually do their jobs and not use their kids as an excuse to force their responsibility onto you.

Sounds as though they've been getting away with as much as they can for as long as they can.

Also with all due to respect to parents their problems are a complete irrelevance to the OP. If anyone should be covering its management or everyone available to work is offered the choice to and gets compensated as a result.

People like your colleagues OP are the reason companies steer away from employing parents and it sucks.

OP, I think that the issue isn't really down to the fact that these people are parents....its that they are piss takers. And anyone can be a pisstaker.....it just happens that in your office they are parents.

You need to decide how to respond or not respond to the email. Personally, I think pretending it never came will be a bit daft and make you seem like a sap, because they will realise it got sent to you. This doesn't mean you have to make it into a big deal or have a big confrontation.

You can respond quite breezily, simply saying that you have plenty going on and will no longer be available to cover for people who are going early/arriving late and that they should sort it out amongst themselves - no strop throwing, just a dignified response which doesn't make any critical comment. They might apologise, which if they do you should acknowledge, but not be effusive or hugely grateful in your response, nor angry and bitter, but very bland and dignified. I really can't see anything much to be gained by taking the email itself to management.

Re the extra work - are you FORCED to do it, or is it throug goodwill and you being helpful? If it is the latter, simply start sticking rigidly to your hours and don't do any more favours. If asked (and they would have some brass neck after knowing you received that email....but they probably do have a lot of brass Jack unfortunately) I would politely say you have other plans and won't be able to....don't elaborate or get drawn into discussion, but simply and firmly say no....and leave on time.
If you are being FORCED to work more by people simply leaviNg you as the only one there in a place which cannot be left unattended, or the manager is insisting you cover, then note down all the instances this has happened and go to the manager. Do not complain about the others, but simply raise the fact that YOU have had to work more....ask for clarification about if you will be given back pay, if they plan to hire more workers and if not what are they going to do to prevent this happening in future as you are not prepared to work extra on a regular basis without pay. This will force management to address the issues of shirkers, without you blaming them directly.....see the posters account of her similar situation upthread and how she handled it and management took action which wasn't seen as unreasonable and unflexible, which is how it appears when it's just about 1 person.

OP, you do sound as if through your good nature you have been a bit of a doormat. Don't convince yourself that this is about all parents being pisstakers, but recognise that you have pisstakers in your workforce who happen to be parents. Stop letting them take the piss. Work your hours and go home. If you are forced to work more, address the issue with management or HR. The time for bending over backwards to help these guys has ended!

OP - I wouldn't do or say anything at this stage. If you have the means, seek professional advice. I'd definitely start to log how the clique take the piss etc, because I'm sure someone higher up than your manager would like to know they're paying these women full time wages for part time hours. If I were a director of the company I'd go absolutely fucking ape. Get as much as you can recorded down.

Think about what you want to achieve. If you still want to work there it might be fairly awkward if you kick back on being shat on, they're used to shitting on you and one at least seems to relish it. If you want to leave, then I'd look to leave in blaze of a payout and an NDA. the threat of a tribunal is often enough for a company to come to a settlement and avoid costly lawyers etc.

Chocolate has good advice. And it's a good point that lazy bastards come in all shapes and sizes. The worst offender I have ever known for timesheet fraud was a manager in his fifties at one place I used to work. He was ostensibly full time but would literally work 10 - 3.30 every day with an hour off for lunch and berate his poor secretary if she booked 3pm meetings for him because that was his 'winding down' time. In the middle of the goddamn day! Single, no kids, just a workshy slacker.

Many working parents, and single parents in particular, go above and beyond in the hours that they are available. Even though they may be technically working less hours than the childless person sitting next to them, they can achieve more, and be more focused as they aware of their other obligations and how this impacts on their work. This is because they are parents

I've worked in many environments in which there is too much work and too little time. You learn to work smarter rather than harder so that you can go home. You don't need to have children to do this, you just need to be reasonably intelligent and thoughtful. Generally it's better to assess people's outputs, not their activity. Bugger all with being a parent - it's just sensible.

OP - I'd back up the email in the ways suggested. Make sure you work your allotted hours and keep an accurate account of this. This may mean coincidentally sending emails at beginning and end of day so you have an audit trail showing what times you've worked. Do your hours and your work. Keep a verifiable record of this. Then sod the rest - don't do it. And look for a job with fewer pisstakers.

I have children now but years ago when I didn't I was always told I can work Mother's Day and Christmas as I have no kids. Wankers.

I know how you feel, I was given a customer that is in a rather unstable country on the basis I was he only one not married or have any children

I think as a starting point raise it with your manager if possible and go from there....

A claim for what??? Not having children is not a protected characteristic!

I think I would hit reply all to the email and simply say - I don't think you meant to send this to me.
Then do them all no favours at all. Suit yourself with the times you work.

The reason i would simply do that with the email reply, is you maintain the moral high ground and at the same time make them sweat wondering if you are going to do anything about it.

I worked in an office with flexi-time, but also phones that needed to be manned til 5pm when office culture tended towards going in as early as possible and then leaving at 3.30-4pm. it caused issues until a rota was set up for staying later.

however that said, no one can MAKE you stay late. so don't do it. you have choices. I'd be looking for a new job personally. the email thing is awful and i'd definitely be taking that up with HR/the boss. but how other people work and if they get time of for dependants isn't your business and you need to assert yourself more and just leave if you don't want to stay late.

Follow Icy21's advice. Spot on.

While I obviously agree that your work colleagues are being awful, I'm also surprised at the number of firms people work for who are obviously behind the times. Times are changing. Many people are working flexibly from home (often not by choice). Forward thinking firms no longer look at set hours sat at a desk - but look at productivity and getting the job done. Surely we've all experienced the colleague who works 12 hours a day but spends 10 of it on the internet?! I'm lucky I work for a very flexible firm. I don't think twice if my child is ill to request to work at home or make time up later (before any comments I think I've done this twice in the last 3 years). Likewise staff get flexibility to be off for plumbers or their own doctor appts etc. Also OP do you work on payroll? Because if you don't you really have no way of knowing personal arrangements. I reduced my hours a few years ago to cover childcare and I've never discussed it with others. They maybe wonder how I manage to start at 9 and finish at 4 everyday! And are you actually asked to cover or do you just assume the responsibility? Are you that worker who works 12 hours a day when no one at all expects you too? It never goes down well if you are - especially if you are giving off a vibe that your colleagues are crap for not doing it too. I had a job where finish time was 5. At 5.15 on the first day my boss told me I had to leave as overtime wasn't the culture. Is this maybe the case in your workplace and you're fighting against it which is causing bitterness? Maybe try working the same hours as someone else and see if your manager actually says anything?

I thought the OP was considering making a complaint rather than a claim, MrsNucky? She may not have a 'protected characteristic' but it does sound as if she is being treated unfairly by her colleagues and manager - and the final sentence of the round robin email is nasty and unacceptable, IMO.

Dragonbait - I thought the OP said that the office needs someone physically there until the end of working hours - so I assume she wouldn't be able to leave at the same time as her colleague, if that meant the office was left uncovered.

Sorry don't know how to reply with your username...I'm a manager and I have a member of staff who always gets worked up if only 1 member of staff is in. I've told her time and again that I am fine with just one member of staff being in (they're not dealing with phone calls etc). My point is she assumes this and then cancels holidays to be there. It is not my requirement - it is her choice. This is why I am asking is the OP assuming she has to cover till a certain time or is her manager actually approaching her and telling her she's the one that has to work?