Dd and argument with trans friends.

[marvelousdcomics]

I'm sorry in advance but this thread is about trans* relates things. I know there are so many threads on this topic already but I'm unsure of what to do.

So, my DD is 14 and a lesbian. She has had ED's, depression, anxiety and self harm issues. A few weeks ago she believed the solution was being trans. We've struggled a bit and she's come to the conclusion that she isn't, although websites and youtube videos on the topic were influencing her. She's improving every day and is gradually embracing self acceptance.

However, at her school are 5 FTM students. They've been horrible to her (two were her friends). They said she was ignoring her 'true self', said she's in denial etc. Dd ignored them.

Today however, one of the friends posted a status on FB of all the 30+ genders there are (apparently). Friend tagged dd and said 'don't ask dd about LGBTQ+ stuff because she's a transphobe and thinks gender is made up'. Dd commented underneath 'im sorry, but have you gotten this wrong? I'm not transphobic at all. I do believe however that gender is a social construct and can be damaging to some people.' Friend then replied with 'thats transphobia! I'm going to report you. You're a disgrace to the LGBTQ+ community and even a transwoman wouldn't take you.' DD then replied with 'well, I'll take the insult if that's what you think. However, I wouldn't date a transwoman purely because I am a lesbian and transwomen are biologically male.'

Afterwards, the FTM students and a couple of others ganged up on dd. Kept calling her horrible things including faggot, transphobic, delusional etc. Dd kept calm, explaining her opinion that gender is made up, sex can never be changed, she wouldn't date a transwoman, its a bit hard to believe there are so many genders, transing children is wrong, self identification is dangerous etc.

Friend told parents who messaged me about my disgustingly transphobic daughter and are threatening to report me and my daughter for bullying their children.

I guess this is more of a WWYD. DD is distraught and I'm rather baffled by the whole thing.

The BBC ran a piece about prenatal testing recently that used "gender" not "sex" throughout. I assume because it thinks the terms are synonyms, and gender is more polite for the lunchtime news.

I blame Adrian Mole thinking the correct answer to "sex?" on a form was "yes please".

I can't help but wonder if sex and gender hadn't become synonymous in language, would we be in this mess?

Your daughter and her friends/ex-friends/bullies all just sound very mixed up and teenaged to me. They need the school counsellor or pastoral leader or whatever the school has to sit them all down and work through it.

The other girls are obviously been horrible and their behaviour's unacceptable but at the same time, in their eyes, their choices and their identify is being threatened and denied by your daughter and that's not easy for a teenager to take lying down.

Your daughter has gone from believing that she may well be trans to rejecting the concept of gender and hating the word 'cis' in just a few weeks. I agree with her and think she's absolutely within her rights to stand up for herself and her views - but it is rather a 180 in a very short space of time and I can see that it's confusing for the other girls.

I can't believe how common trans children seem to be becoming in schools. I have never (to my knowledge) met a trans person in my life - and now we're being told there are 5 in just one school. It's obviously a bandwagon and just another way for teenagers to express their 'individuality' (except it's not individuality now is it!)

She said she's a non binary seeking hormone treatment.

OP I don't think your daughter sounds mixed up at all. She seems to have a clear and sensible view about her being a lesbian and she's having to deal with others who are mixed up and trying to force your daughter to accept something she knows to be wrong.

And what is presenting as male?

For these kids I doubt it amounts to much more than a male name and clothing and a short haircut. Perhaps the OP can correct me if I'm wrong!

Thank you everyone.

To the pp who said about social media, I didn't know until dd told me. She has about an hour-2 hours screen time a day and that's when this all happened.

Jinkx, yes that's right. 1 of them still has long hair. They all have a male name and wear trousers to school (used to wear skirts).

Manic, yes, I do suppose it could be confusing for the other girls. But some insults appeared firstly when she came out as lesbian, before she was questioning things. She's thought for a long time that gender is a social construct and she felt guilty for questioning herself. I do understand the other kids POV somewhat, although I wont stand for them being bullies.

Thank you for all replies

Wearing trousers and having short hair...? On what planet can they think that makes them trans? I despair. Mind you it might be a good thing, surely it can't be that hard to teach kids that what you wear isn't anything to do with sex?

Op I hope your DD enjoys the rest of half term.

Indeed Lorelei. But that's the trans discourse nowadays. Declare yourself to be your chosen gender, adopt a new name, maybe change your outfit choices, et voila! Anyone who questions you or doubts you is a transphobe.

I don't see how taking testosterone will make me any less of a woman. No beef here with identifying as a woman, either. How can anyone blame a person for changing that which they can to get ahead in a world of systemic discrimination? Me growing a beard may get me a job and less flack from people the same way a black woman might choose to have straight hair. I don't see anyone arguing that the black woman should not relax her hair, despite that it's not what occurs naturally for that specific individual, and it's unfair on others who don't have the means to do what she has done. Not sure if I'm making sense. Blame the system, not the victim. I have endo and would need a hysterectomy and hormone treatment after that anyway. I want to break the gender binary, not enforce it.

OP - It's probably a bit dramatic, but have you considered another school for your daughter? Also, I agree with posters a while back who suggested that LGBTQIA (or whatever) is unlikely to be her community. From what I hear from young lesbians, everything is trans, queer and gay male. There is scant ideological and physical space for women / girls who identify as lesbian (unless it is the new fangled queer sort). And as for avoiding arguments over trans politics, it's nigh impossible because this is what most conversations are about. I don't know what your daughter's interests are, but I do hope that she has groups outside of school where she can meet other people - possibly women to give her positive female and / or lesbian role models. If not maybe encourage this? This way she may be able to find a space where she can sidestep the whole trans thing, or at least decentre it.

First of all OP, my heart goes out to you and your daughter having to go through this, bullying in any form is soul destroying and in this case is made all the more complex by such a divisive issue.

Secondly, this whole issue truly makes my brain ache... Its so confusing, there seem to be so many rights, wrongs and contradictions! How can parents and children navigate this minefield? Also the teachers are in a difficult position here, as it seems to be a very dangerous situation for them to have to identify/call out bullying without overstepping professional diversity protocols. I truly despair for all involved.

I want to live in a world where we accept people for whom they are or choose to be, but its important that the needs of one group (however they identify) is not being met or favoured at the expense of another, just because they shout the loudest.

What a nightmare... I really dont know how these issues can be resolved.

to you and your daughter OP.

Spartacus, I have considered another school actually. Ds1 (13) is at another (and higher rated) school, so that may be an option but I'm undecided as of yet. She has quite a few other friends, but she isn't very close to anyone really. She loves reading, writing, crocheting, all sports (always out somewhere) etc. DD has said herself that the lgbtq+ groups don't match her as she doesn't feel welcome within them, so thank you for your idea of meeting other people outside of school. Thank you

Wookie, thank you too I really don't know what the outcome will be. I too want people to get along no matter what, and I hope the situation is efficiently dealt with

I would move her bullying could effect her education. I grew up with a trans father this isn't a new trend people have been doing it for years. My dad hid it from the world only going out in the evenings so no one would ridicule him. These kids have come out in school they think people are against them already. They don't sound mature enough to handle that responsibility. The trans male who was on X factor last year he was confident in his own skin. Tell your dd its not her problem how they feel it takes years for people to work out who they are.

Marvelousdcomics - that's great that your dd has interests outside of school. Sporting ones are particularly good, I think, based on what younger women have told me (in terms of making community and being about something other than identity). I'm almost hesitant to say this, but I've heard that the Guides are also a good female-positive space. My own experience wasn't wonderful, but I've been told I'm unlucky and that it is a fantastic place for young women to go to to build community and learn postive things about being a girl / woman.

Thank you for that Spartacus. One of dd's friends goes to guides, so I will ask about it. I think she would enjoy it actually. Thank you

Jesus - it's difficult enough being 14 years old as it is without all of these other things being thrown into the mix.

Bullying is bullying is bullying. Whether the bullies are gay, trans, pan or bi.
Being different from what's accepted as the norm does not give them a get out of jail free card to abuse those such as your daughter who are strong enough to know her own mind and don't want to fall in with their narrow definitions regarding her own sexuality. They then, ironically, become the bigoted ones.

I agree Ager. Thank you for your reply.