Dd and argument with trans friends.

[marvelousdcomics]

I'm sorry in advance but this thread is about trans* relates things. I know there are so many threads on this topic already but I'm unsure of what to do.

So, my DD is 14 and a lesbian. She has had ED's, depression, anxiety and self harm issues. A few weeks ago she believed the solution was being trans. We've struggled a bit and she's come to the conclusion that she isn't, although websites and youtube videos on the topic were influencing her. She's improving every day and is gradually embracing self acceptance.

However, at her school are 5 FTM students. They've been horrible to her (two were her friends). They said she was ignoring her 'true self', said she's in denial etc. Dd ignored them.

Today however, one of the friends posted a status on FB of all the 30+ genders there are (apparently). Friend tagged dd and said 'don't ask dd about LGBTQ+ stuff because she's a transphobe and thinks gender is made up'. Dd commented underneath 'im sorry, but have you gotten this wrong? I'm not transphobic at all. I do believe however that gender is a social construct and can be damaging to some people.' Friend then replied with 'thats transphobia! I'm going to report you. You're a disgrace to the LGBTQ+ community and even a transwoman wouldn't take you.' DD then replied with 'well, I'll take the insult if that's what you think. However, I wouldn't date a transwoman purely because I am a lesbian and transwomen are biologically male.'

Afterwards, the FTM students and a couple of others ganged up on dd. Kept calling her horrible things including faggot, transphobic, delusional etc. Dd kept calm, explaining her opinion that gender is made up, sex can never be changed, she wouldn't date a transwoman, its a bit hard to believe there are so many genders, transing children is wrong, self identification is dangerous etc.

Friend told parents who messaged me about my disgustingly transphobic daughter and are threatening to report me and my daughter for bullying their children.

I guess this is more of a WWYD. DD is distraught and I'm rather baffled by the whole thing.

I must add, no doubt, they're in a clique because they're insecure. People who need to cut others down, especially publicly, are not well in themselves. I had bullies who were anorexic and also couldn't leave the house without makeup. Not excusing their behaviour, and it certainly didn't comfort me, but anyone well rounded, self aware and happy would not feel the need to pick fights with people they should be joining arms with or at the very least having the empathy to tolerate. I'm not sure what can be done, but I think it must have roots in the curriculum not moving fast enough to tackle "today's" insecurities and foster better relationships between peers.

May I just ask what non binary is? I have heard of it, but am not awfully familiar with it.

You'd better learn all of these, just in case....

www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/15/the-complete-glossary-of-facebook-s-51-gender-options.html

Its

Thanks for that. There's so many genders....

Non-binary: I identify as neither man nor woman. It's one of a few terms. Not gonna lie, us gender fluid people generally agree with feminists that gender is socially constructed and separate from sex. We're just less likely to feel threatened by the existence of transgender people (who are naturally our peers).

I really, really wish gender was irrelevant. I plan to grow a beard because I have always wanted one, and because I seek the ultimate in empathy, and to have that empathy, I feel like I should experience a broad range of things - both masculine and feminine puberty, being viewed by strangers predominantly as predator or prey, etc, and am happy to be a guinea pig for just not being 100% anything. I hope to gain a wider understanding of the experiences of different sexes and genders. And to those who feel this way, I don't see it as opting out of womanhood. That's simplistic and extremely dismissive. I could go on, but it's Halloween and I should be somewhere else... dressed as Harry Potter! ;)

TheWorstWhich

I thought non-binary et al were also included under the transgender umbrella - I thought everyone who was not "cisgender" was transgender?

As I mentioned in the other thread on these issues here today, about half of girls seeking sex reassignment hormones, in studies, have a history of childhood sexual abuse.

When dealing with these girls, remember that they may very well have gone through hell and that the reason they hate their bodies may be a very horrifying one. Your daughter should know this as well.

Thanks for that TheWorst. I understand it a bit more now.

Womb, yes I know. The thing is (and I'm not dismissing any possible abuse) all 5 kids (across different school years) 'came out' together, and they do parade around a bit about being trans and all that. When I speak to school I will take that into account. Thank you

No, there aren't so many genders. There are many tumblr kids who are making up their own cliques, though, under the guise of acceptance (although, as you have seen, acceptance is a moveable feast).

Once upon a time, feminists critiqued gender, pointing out that it was a series of socially determined boxes that placed everyone in a hierarchy with women always being on a lower rung than an otherwise equivalent man.

What happened? Identity politics and the insistence that what you feel is what you are. Problem is, you can't identify your way out of that hierarchy - the brave decision is to expand the narrowing definitions of what it means to be a man or a woman, not to ape the gender constraints of the opposite sex.

We are all ill equipped to deal with this phenomenon. Especially if we all pipe down.

TheWorst, I don't feel threatened by the existence of anyone but I will not be labelled cis according to someone else's idea of how a woman thinks, feels or behaves. I am a woman because I am an adult human female, no more no less. That'll do me. Happy Pottering!

Fuck me I thought there were just two genders but hey ho.

They sound very immature but then 14 year olds are and I expect the average 14 year old will cringe In years to come when they are reminded of bollocks like this. Attention seeking nonsense. Unfortunately social media will remind them how daft they were.

Your ds sounds a great kid op and she's being bullied.

In my day it was being fat/poor/wrong shoes etc and these days sexuality is now fair game.

See the senior management team at her school.

First, I totally agree.

That's exactly dd's opinion First.

Lalsy, dd also refuses to be labelled 'cis'. She hates the term. The friends also called her a 'cisgendered bigot' (not sure if I mentioned that already).

Thanks Dontpanic. The SLT are really familiar with dd due to past problems, so will arrange an appt with them when school starts again

worstwitch you're going to take artificial testosterone, risking your fertility and with the uncertainty about future risks that carries so you can grow a beard and empathise with males
What on earth are you thinking?

I think your DD is very sensible but needs to step back from this crowd. She will find her people, but not here. I would advise her to basically say she doesn't want to fight and just stay out of it. If parents bug you say look they are just kids and this is all out of hand. No one looks good right now so I think this needs to be dropped. Try and just walk away because talking to these people won't help.

my DD2 is bi and she gets hate from homophobes and from some lesbians. Go figure.

Lesbians can be fucking brutal about bi people. Apparently we are "greedy" and "refuse to accept ourselves". We should all "pick a side".

Bless her op some kids do have a bloody rough teenage deal don't they but you sound like a great mum and I think 14 is possibly the worst age in the world. Bet by this time next year things will be much better

Jinx, thanks. I'm just wondering now if you mean transsexual as in actually having treatment, because im not sure what rejecting womanhood means otherwise.

Lorelei - I doubt any of these FTM school friends are having treatment. Verrrry unlikely. But they are, essentially, teenage girls rejecting womanhood, are they not? They are saying "we're not girls, we're guys".

How can that be anything other than rejecting their womanhood, their female-ness, and all the trappings that comes with it?

What I don't accept, and this is maybe why I haven't been making sense to you, is that they are boys born into the wrong body. That is the accepted trans narrative, I know. But when you have a mini epidemic of teenage girls saying "we're dudes", that is NOT what's going on. It's a trend; an ideology that's spreading amongst girls and making them want to reject their sex. It's scary.

OP, she might enjoy the Spartacus threads then. We are Spartacus and we are her people . She is learning early that those with weak arguments rely on ad hominem attacks. I wish her all the best, and though I am glad there are young people standing up and fighting this stuff, I hope she gets a break now and this bullying can be sorted.

I have absolutely no idea why you allow your dd to engage in disagreements on social media. Switch it off. Don't engage.

She might enjoy culturallyboundgender.wordpress.com -- there's even one post about why "cis" is such a messed up term that she might really dig.

PoldarksBreeches did TheWorstWhich mean s/he was going to take hormones?

TheWorstWhich - did you mean that?

I'm a woman, was born female. All I'd need to do to grow a beard is stop shaving every day. I'm not on artificial hormones, just fucking hairy! I don't think I have PCOS. but friends of mine who have it are similarly hairy too.

OP i hate being called cis too.

Jinx, the reason I asked is because sometimes I hear stories of girls thinking they are boys because of shit like the Science Museum quiz saying mathematical ability, spatial awareness etc are male traits. I don't wear dresses or skirts or heels ever. I am childfree. I don't have any use for or interest in my female body parts. I've honestly seen stuff online that would tell me I'm trans because of all this but I am a biological woman and fine with that. It seems that a lot gender bullshit I thought we'd done well to reduce is now emerging in a kind of ABCD1 equivalent of marketing categories and I don't think it benefits anyone, in fact I think it harms others.

What is it about womanhood that these girls are rejecting? If it's just pink glittery crap then they aren't rejecting womanhood. What even is womanhood apart from the biology?

I see it more as rejecting all the crappy things about being female. From a feminist perspective, to present as male is to protect oneself from feeling physically vulnerable in public. To present as male must feel like a suit of armour, no fear of sexual assault, no pressure to look and act a certain way (not just pink and glitter). Am I making any sense?

Jinx, sort of. But to me that's the sadness of it - why, when things were going forward and stereotypes being eroded, what makes someone feel,like that?

And what is presenting as male?

But trans people are at risk of assault, under pressure about their looks, and so on, surely?

The BBC ran a piece about prenatal testing recently that used "gender" not "sex" throughout. I assume because it thinks the terms are synonyms, and gender is more polite for the lunchtime news. Whatever you think gender is, you can't test for it with an amnio. I think that sort of confusion from people who should no better doesn't help teens, or schools for that matter.

Know not no