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Original poster

Dd and argument with trans friends.

142 replies

marvelousdcomics · 31/10/2016 17:24

I'm sorry in advance but this thread is about trans* relates things. I know there are so many threads on this topic already but I'm unsure of what to do.

So, my DD is 14 and a lesbian. She has had ED's, depression, anxiety and self harm issues. A few weeks ago she believed the solution was being trans. We've struggled a bit and she's come to the conclusion that she isn't, although websites and youtube videos on the topic were influencing her. She's improving every day and is gradually embracing self acceptance.

However, at her school are 5 FTM students. They've been horrible to her (two were her friends). They said she was ignoring her 'true self', said she's in denial etc. Dd ignored them.

Today however, one of the friends posted a status on FB of all the 30+ genders there are (apparently). Friend tagged dd and said 'don't ask dd about LGBTQ+ stuff because she's a transphobe and thinks gender is made up'. Dd commented underneath 'im sorry, but have you gotten this wrong? I'm not transphobic at all. I do believe however that gender is a social construct and can be damaging to some people.' Friend then replied with 'thats transphobia! I'm going to report you. You're a disgrace to the LGBTQ+ community and even a transwoman wouldn't take you.' Hmm DD then replied with 'well, I'll take the insult if that's what you think. However, I wouldn't date a transwoman purely because I am a lesbian and transwomen are biologically male.'

Afterwards, the FTM students and a couple of others ganged up on dd. Kept calling her horrible things including faggot, transphobic, delusional etc. Dd kept calm, explaining her opinion that gender is made up, sex can never be changed, she wouldn't date a transwoman, its a bit hard to believe there are so many genders, transing children is wrong, self identification is dangerous etc.

Friend told parents who messaged me about my disgustingly transphobic daughter and are threatening to report me and my daughter for bullying their children.

I guess this is more of a WWYD. DD is distraught and I'm rather baffled by the whole thing.

OP posts:
FlyingElbows · 31/10/2016 18:48

I would suggest that the most important thing you can do immediately is teach your daughter not to get drawn in to Facebook fights. She will never convince the terminally entitled teens who are drawn to this particular trend (I use that word as the mother of a teen in exactly your daughter's position) that there is any mindset other than their own. They rage themselves in circles spewing contradiction all over the place and desperately searching for labels they insist they don't want. They're ridiculous and wholly damaging to both themselves and the genuinely trans kids trying to navigate life. The pressure on teens in this era is mind boggling, I really feel for your daughter. Tell her not to engage with the wailing and seek out rational thinking lesbian and trans women. They do exist.

PikachuSayBoo · 31/10/2016 18:53

When dd told me she was pan sexual I had to google it! Grin

SpunkyMummy · 31/10/2016 18:54

I have some trans friends... so, although I do not think your daughter is transphobic and I do believe that she was bullied this last statement is..."problematic" (horribly ambiguous word)

wouldn't date a transwoman purely because I am a lesbian and transwomen are biologically male.
First of all, there are lesbians that like trans women.

However, saying what your daughter said is one of the big "no-no's". Many trans people get livid when they hear statements like these (whether justified or or isn't a discussion I want to have). I know, she was attacked. But gosh, I wish for her sake she hadn't said that.

She sat herself right in the crossfire of a currently very active debate in the feminist, TERF, general LGBT and the trans community. (I work/research in a university and we quite a few feminists/people from the groups I mentioned above)

Lorelei76 · 31/10/2016 18:55

Hi OP
I realise what I'm about to post May be useless but I'm so sorry to hear what's happening to your DD that I wanted to address it.

I think your DD sounds like a good and strong person. I think the comments that have been made to her are homophobic.

This topic is so divisive I don't discuss it much in my circle, only with the absolute closest people. This also means I don't say anything on social media, and that goes for any controversial subject tbh.

I realise what I'm about to say may be controversial too but especially as your DD is young and at school, I'd suggest she doesn't use social media for anything more than the fun stuff. I realise the automatic thing, when someone's labelled you, is to respond so I'm wondering if she can block this group or do whatever on Facebook to ensure they can't tag her in things.

You probably saw the thing about the boy who is allowed to use the girls bathroom in a catholic school, that's how crazy this has become so while these discussions have to happen on a personal level, I'd stay away from having them in public.

Big props to your DD. Also, if these people are part of her group of friends in real life she needs to get some new friends I'm afraid. She can always hop on Feminist Chat if an online listening ear would help!

derxa · 31/10/2016 18:57

She sounds great. Tell her to do what I do on here. Don't be drawn in. Don't feed them Flowers to your lovely DD

titchy · 31/10/2016 18:58

Fuck big no-noes - a lesbian is perfectly entitled to say she doesn't want cock. Regardless of who it belongs to.

derxa · 31/10/2016 18:58

PS This labelling business is a pile of horse dung.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 31/10/2016 18:58

First of all, there are lesbians that like trans women.

There really really aren't. A lesbian is someone who is exclusively attracted to females. To women. A transwoman is not a woman, and is not female.

There may well be people who are attracted to transwomen, but they are not lesbians.

Thisjustinno · 31/10/2016 19:00

It's bullying and the school should address it as such.

The 'trans issue' isn't really relevant.

FlapsTie · 31/10/2016 19:03

I am dying of LOLs at the statement about lesbians fancying transwomen.

I'm reminded of that Humpty Dumpty quote from Lewis Carrol.

When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.

FeliciaJollygoodfellow · 31/10/2016 19:05

wouldn't date a transwoman purely because I am a lesbian and transwomen are biologically male.
First of all, there are lesbians that like trans women.

^^ So what? OP's daughter has a right to say she wouldn't date a transwoman, just like as a heterosexual woman I have a right to say I wouldn't date a woman.

OP I have great admiration for your daughter, she has said ten times more than I am willing to say out loud.

They are stupid as fuck though aren't they, and it goes to show that the T should definitely be dropped.

I don't really have any advice other than what a pp said - homophobic bullying which she is definitely being subject to, is still a crime. If you think there are some sensible teachers in her school (and by that I mean that won't just jump on the trans train the second transphobia is mentioned) I would speak to them about it and ask that they have serious words with the perpetrators.

SpunkyMummy · 31/10/2016 19:05

There really really aren't. A lesbian is someone who is exclusively attracted to females. To women. A transwoman is not a woman, and is not female.

Debatable. Modern medicine is actually rather miraculous sometimes.

I think trans men are men and trans women are female. And if a transman were to look masculine? Why not. But I honestly won't discuss this.

The OP's daughter is being bullied and it's terrible. Period

The OP's daughter also needs to learn (unfortunately) when to engage with people and when not. And that she really shouldn't argue on fb.

SpunkyMummy · 31/10/2016 19:08

Btw, I'm not saying that anything the DD wrote/did justifies the bullying.

I'm just saying that in the current climate her statements were slightly ill advised... and I was trying to explain why it's better if she didn't make them. Unless she's ready to have many very difficult conversations and face very challenging situations.

PoldarksBreeches · 31/10/2016 19:09

Debatable. Modern medicine is actually rather miraculous sometimes

Modern medicine can't turn a male person into a female person.

I think trans men are men and trans women are female. And if a transman were to look masculine? Why not. But I honestly won't discuss this

Unsurprisingly your terminology and concepts are all over the shop. If you think trans women are female then you think a thing that is false.

Chumpster · 31/10/2016 19:12

This subject is very complicated and there is clearly some debate still around some of the issues, as highlighted above.
But i think you should just focus on the fact that she is being bullied by some nasty people and the school needs to take action. Don't worry about the nuances of the debate. Your daughter is clearly a good nice person who is not transphobic. The bullies have behaved unacceptably and should be dealt with under the school's bullying policy.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 31/10/2016 19:14

Debatable. Modern medicine is actually rather miraculous sometimes

Not that miraculous. It can create a remarkably good facsimile of a penis or a vagina. A fully transitioned MtT is a male who has had breast implants, and surgery to create the approximation of a female appearance - that does not make them a female.

The same is also true for FtT.

It is not possible to change sex. You can make any modifications to your body that you like, but you cannot change your sex, it is encoded in every somatic cell in your body.

JinkxMonsoon · 31/10/2016 19:14

It's almost like, and forgive me if I sound glib here, "trans" is the new "goth". Young teens, bit angsty, seeking out people who are similar to themselves, want to belong to a group but also want to kick against the mainstream at the same time? ''Twas ever thus. It's all totally normal and healthy until we have children deciding that they're the wrong sex and contemplating irreversibly fucking up their bodies with hormones and surgery.

Hopefully it's a trend that will fizzle out in a matter of years as these teens realise that they aren't trans after all. I sincerely hope so.

I also think it's interesting that so many girls seem to be rejecting womanhood. And it's not necessarily out of fear of being gay, but more perhaps a desire to throw off all the negative aspects of being female, and get a bit of male privilege for themselves. I can certainly see the appeal sometimes.

SpunkyMummy · 31/10/2016 19:14

chumpster

I absolutely agree. DD seems very nice, sensible and not transphobic. (Not being attracted to transpeople isn't transphobia, after all. Or at least it shouldn't be)..

I just wanted to explain why it's in DD's best interest not to say certain things. Unless she wants to create controversy and be politically active. But it doesn't seem like she'd want that.

titchy · 31/10/2016 19:15

Debatable. Modern medicine is actually rather miraculous sometimes.

You're not a biologist or a medic clearly....

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 31/10/2016 19:16

As an aside Spunkymummy are you American? I'm just asking because "spunky* may have a different meaning to what you intend - I assume you are using spunky = brave?

titchy · 31/10/2016 19:17

I think you're right Jink - it is the new Goth. Pity the adults are taking it all so seriously...

Original poster
marvelousdcomics · 31/10/2016 19:18

Thank you everyone.

She is at a big school. 2 of the FTMs are in her year, 1 is 2 years younger and 2 are the year above, and they all ganged up on her with other kids. She does have other friends too, but these people appeared really nice and kind until recently.

The status I think was started today because they are on half term now, so I cant call school or anything. DD has blocked them all.

I feel sad for her. The 2 friends know everything shes been through and they're being horrible.

And yes, dd sees through some of the trans ideologies. She accepts that some people have sex dysphoria although these people at school are all close friends and decided to 'come out' together all at once.

Thank you everyone. I haven't replied to the parents and don't intend to. I will contact school ASAP

OP posts:
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 31/10/2016 19:19

I also think it's interesting that so many girls seem to be rejecting womanhood. And it's not necessarily out of fear of being gay, but more perhaps a desire to throw off all the negative aspects of being female, and get a bit of male privilege for themselves.

I'm pretty sure this has something to do with it:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-37223063

Fourormore · 31/10/2016 19:20

Trans women are not female. Female is a person with XX chromosomes. No medicine or surgery can make an XY person into an XX person.
I will concede that transwomen are women. That's about gender, not sex. You can change your gender. Gender is subjective. You cannot change your sex. Sex is fact.

SpunkyMummy · 31/10/2016 19:25

its

I wish I didn't know the meaning 😂

But no, it's a childhood nickname 😌 one of my sisters started using it (she didn't know the meaning back then). It's admittedly slightly unfortunate but I actually know people with worse nns.