To ignore hints about problems ?

[Babieseverywhere]

My 8yo DS has no friends.

He has one classmate who he will play computer games with at his house but does not play with this child at school.

School say he is happy and has lots of friends at school, which is reassuring but no play dates or party invites since reception.

I have stopped trying playdates at home as DS sits on the stairs upset until guest child goes home.

So I decided to stop attempting play dates and send him to clubs which have activities instead.

I send him to an after school club which is run by the teachers. The teacher said he enjoys it. DD1 also attends this club and says her brother messes around and doesn't follow instructions. However the teachers have not reported anything, so it must be minor.

DS also goes to Cubs and a computer coding class. This is where the AIBU bit comes in. Both clubs have mentioned that he is enthusiastic and runs around a lot. They ask if he is doing ok at school/home.

AIBU to just nod along and say everything is fine (which I have done several times now) when I am pretty sure they are hinting he is causing some level of problem because I am terrified they will stop him going and he will be gutted ?

A specialist boarding school for ADHD?!

Babieseverywhere Sun 30-Oct-16 11:39:24

"I gave it all my attention and effort for two years should I spend the next two heading my head against the same brick wall ? I am not an expert, I gave it all my attention and effort for two years should I spend the next two heading my head against the same brick wall ? "

If there is any risk that your son will otherwise have to spend his entire life banging his head against the brick wall of other people expecting him to be able to do something that is (as you say) not in his nature- yes, then that is probably what you do have to do. As I said in my earlier post, I spent nearly 10 years getting dd a diagnosis. I had some pretty nasty things said to me during that time. But the end result was a dd who got the support she needed in order to be able to fit in and make the most of her opportunities. It wasn't about me, it was about her.

But do also consider the advice given by other experienced posters about techniques which you can use with or without a diagnosis. There may be something there that can really make a difference to your ds.

It sounds like you need a massive hug for all you're going through. Some kids,however great, need adults to really listen to their take on the world.

I have a NT child. School assured me she was happy. I was convinced she wasn't, in fact I think there were times she teetered on the brink of suicidal. In the end I had to trust my guts over all their numerous reassurances (for 2 years). I didn't have any evidence, just my instincts. I decided enough was enough one day and pulled be out. She started at a new school and was a different child. Don't believe the teachers can always tell when children are happy - they see the child's 'on-show' behaviour, not necessarily how they really are.

Try to listen to your child and your inner voice, trust & belive that voice over any 'expert'.

Just to say that he may well have been in normal ranges of behaviour 2 years ago, when lots of small boys that age have problems sitting still, processing instructions, etc. It's quite possible that if CAMHS saw him again now that they would agree various behaviours aren't typical for his age group.

I would start by getting the computer club teacher on side, explaining it's the highlight of his week and what he has done elsewhere. And then meeting with class teacher and Senco to discuss discrepancies in all the reports about his behaviour, so you know exactly what is going on, they know things that help at home, and follow up by email to confirm everything that was said.

He needs a tiger mama on his side, whether he meets any official SEN category or not. Good luck.

Oh just remembered CAMHS told us with DS that it's not possible to diagnose Aspergers younger than 8, as the problems described can be age appropriate.

My DS, 8 has some writing issues and some social issues. Writing issues are quite serious, social issues less severe. His school have been proactive with both without me asking them to. They have decided that he doesn't have a formal diagnosis for anything but are supporting him with a senco based learning plan. They are treating him as an individual with individual needs. This will not make everything okay but it really helps and is what every child deserves.

Octopus it was a specialist boarding school for boys with behavioural problems not specifically ADHD by the time he attended his issues had been overlooked for a long time. It was quite a few years ago and I can't remember the exact details of the school.

Another saying that maybe you need to push for a new diagnosis - it might be a completely different story now.
The behaviour needs to be seen in more than one setting - your sons behaviour has now been seen at home, coding club and cubs...
My DD was diagnosed at 14 with ADHD - she 'conformed' at school so no bad behaviour - only sign really was she struggled to concentrate but she is young in her year -so it kept being put down to immaturity. (she did go through a stage of refusing etc and also struggled with friendships but the main problem was lack of focus). She is bright so that helped her to disguise it.
However at eg guides apparently she was hyper - especially when she started she was really excited and thought she 'could' show it - they called her the 'mad brownie' - asked why the brownies hadn't warned them about her.

I saw that home as well - being hyper, oppositional etc etc but she controlled it at school...apparently it is extremely common for girls to conform.
Getting her diagnosed as an older teen (I'd never tried before -didn't want her labelled but I was worried she was losing it) was extremely straightforward as she had years of school reports etc as well as out of school activity reports etc.
However even without a diagnosis you can try looking at strategies to manage behaviour used for children with SN.
The problem with eg behaving at code club - if he did have say ADHD - is they struggle to see the consequences of their actions - forward thinking. I could give DD a consequence of her actions - eg if you don't stop doing X I will take Y off you. It would make no difference - she would carry on then when she lost Y it would be a shock - and there would be a massive tantrum... but she had been repeatedly warned... and it is a real tough one.
This kind of approach is a good -but isn't always successful - www.additudemag.com/adhdblogs/10/8476.html focus on the positive....let them decide how to behave - which means they are more likely to remember they need to behave - if that makes sense.

I would have an honest discussion with the leaders of the cubs and code club -don't be afraid of him losing his place, focus on how he can keep his place - what you can do to help.
After the start of guides I asked the brownie leader about DD -she was extremely fond of her - liked the energy she brought...it livened things up. And the guide leaders went on a mission to see what it took to get her to calm down -apparently after bouncing for 12 hrs at camp she quietened down...

I really would get him assessed.
I have quite a lot of experience of children with SEN. The best route I have found is to ask GP for a referral to a paediatrician or privately if you can afford it.
I understand how difficult it is for you if you have been made to feel you are to blame but for your son's sake I would do it.

The psychologist sounds like a bit of an idiot, to be honest. Surely the whole point is that your son doesn't want to make friends with other children? Just observing him in school doesn't constitute making an assessment. She also may have been unaware of sensory issues. Do think about getting an occupational therapy assessment from a therapist trained in sensory integration.

My ds was diagnosed by a paediatrician aged 3.
He has ADHD and other SEN.
He has an EHCP and did wonderfully at primary school with one to one help. His helper used to take him outside to ride a bike when he got hyper.
His new, very highly rated, high school is much more demanding and despite our seeing SENCO and making sure school had all reports he was given 3 detentions in the first 2 weeks for behaviour he could not help.
We have sorted it out and the school have assured us it will not happen again.
However they were very quick to label him as a badly behaved child which was extremely upsetting for a child who has always been highly motivated and happy at school.
I am not sure we would have got anywhere without the EHCP.

I have been through all this with my son. CAHMS was useless. They assured me there was nothing wrong, gave me parenting tips, etc. Well, they were wrong.

Fast forward 2 years and my son was still struggling. Not academically but socially. And when he was not feeling defiant, he felt really bad about himself. Cue in more professional help and a diagnose: he has Sensory Processing Disorder. Two years of intense therapy follows and very little improvement to show. So off I go in search of more help, despite the OT saying to me to trust the treatment would work eventually. But I knew I had to do more for my son. I couldn't just wait for it to get better.

Well, turns out he has ADHD, is gifted and has High Functioning Autism. He is a complex case, the 3 things interact with each other which makes a diagnose hard.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it took me nearly 5 years to come to a diagnose for my son. Some kids are complex, and some experts cannot see the whole picture. But kids do well when they can. I too got the : "it's parenting style, it's the school, he is just a boy, he needs more structure, etc". Even my husband got fed up with my pushing for a diagnose. But things got better once he got the diagnose. The biggest change was that he now has the support he needed, and he knows it not his fault; he is not a bad kid. Yes, he has to work hard to behave, some activities and settings simply don't work but he (and I ) understand why. The blame, guilty, shame is gone, and he is a happier child.

That's a massive point fafa. DS said things became so much easier when he understood it wasn't his fault.

His school put supports in place, his scouts put supports in place and his family put supports in place. His diagnosis meant he could start to understand himself better but more importantly so could other people.

The biggest regret I have OP is listening to CAMHS, they were wrong and an apology when they finally diagnosed him didn't make up for the 12 wasted years.

And that's why we went privately with DD. CAMHS said no problems, school said no problems but there were problems and she masked them. We wasted 4 years dealing/trying to deal with CAMHS before we realised they were never going to help her. The pyschologist we saw privately said she presented with classic signs of ASD and couldn't believe it had been missed.

OP if you know in your heart and soul that your DS's behaviour is not "normal" don't, please don't, let it go.

Oh and as a scout leader what you're describing as your son's behaviour is not NT.

In our group we would identify a leader who can work with your son and we would be using the techniques we've learnt from working with non NT scouts. Unless your son is exceptionally badly behaved (and we do recognise the difference) he would not be asked to leave our scout group.

It would mean however, that his scouting life could be restricted.

YABU
The club leaders are not complaining, it sounds like they are trying to work with you on how to tackle the issue.
You might want to warn your DS that if he disrupts the class he might be asked to leave. Just so that if it happens, it is not a complete surprise for him.

Ds had a good time jumping out at trick or treaters tonight, lol. He has a lot of energy :)

I will talk to coding club next week. I think I was over worrying, I am sure things can be sorted :)

It doesn't sound like you're over-worrying. It sounds like your son is struggling. You are struggling. And the school and CAMHS are being completely and utterly useless. None of the behaviours that you have described are 'normal'.

You need to fight for your son. The process is intrusive. It can be humiliating and soul destroying andcfar too often professionals refuse to recognise children's needs. The HT at our local school is notorious for his belief that autism isn't a real thing. It is other teachers and club leaders that have pushed to getchildren tested - children that he consistently labelled 'bad'. abdicating responsibility isn't unheard of from professionals. Right now, you're all your son has. You need to fight for him.

I posted earlier but have been following your posts since and I'm so glad he had a good night!

Are you over worrying? Yes, probably about the clubs and your fear they want him out, rather than want to help him. But, may I say, OF COURSE you are over worrying!!!! Anyone would in your situation. You've been backed into a corner by professionals who are supposed to bloody help. And all they've done is make life harder for you and DS. That's utterly crap. And they've forced you into living a life in permanent cognitive dissonance, in which you 'know' that your son needs help, and yet you've been forced to 'believe' that this is not true and it's all your fault. Being forced to ignore the evidence of your own eyes, ears, and heart.

Having pointed the finger conveniently at you, they wash their hands of the whole thing. So you are to blame for your sons behaviour (except that there's also nothing wrong with him so I'm not quite sure how that's supposed to work!). Yet there's nothing they can explain and nothing for you to change or work on improving.

You know he is not experiencing and reacting to life in the same way as other 'nt' children. You know that, and it doesn't matter whether he's right at the extreme edges of normal behaviour or he's got something with a name to it.

Well, I think you need to find a way to get out of this horrible, powerless state which you're trapped in. It's not doing you, or DS any good at all.

Babies I've been there. I'm on school number 3 and we've also Home Educated DD2 (9) and now, finally, after 2 years in school #3, they've said 'she's not going to cope in secondary.' and said they'll support me in pursuing assessment. I first raised concern when she was 3 years old and tried to get her assessed in year 1 in school #1.

Hang in there.

I hope you find a way to open that door that you and the CAMHS firmly closed. You may regret making coming across a crazy mum in the past, (been there!). But that's nothing in comparison to what you might feel if in the future you come to a realisation that the experts should have done more to help your son. If he has High Functioning Autism, early intervention is can make a lot of difference. You son can learn to read social cues, to communicate in an appropriate way, to manage frustrations, etc. But he needs to be taught how to, in a very concrete way. No amount of observation of how other kids interact will make a difference. These kids literally have to be taught how to have more acceptable social interactions. There is hope, and the light at the end of the tunnel only appears once you know exactly what you are dealing with.

May I ask you what does your brother think of your son? It may be that he can see some common traits.

Every clinical person indentified small areas which might have indicated concern BUT as none of these same concerns were observed at school it shows there is no consistency of issues. It shows that the slight concerns are just personality.

I want to scream at the top of my voice 'No, it does not show that the slight concerns are just personality at all' Because the concerns when all put together are far from slight.

Babies you are wrong to listen to school and give their opinions so much weight. They are not helping you and much worse, they are not helping your son.

Look up "masking" in relation to ASD/ADHD/SPD

Research strategies for dealing with a child who has ASD/ADHD/SPD/PDA go and read the posts on MNs SN boards try SN Children for a start and see how many parents have encountered the exact same 'blindness' by schools and been told that it's their poor parenting causing their child's difficult behaviour.

Then go for a thorough assessment for your son, he needs help now. Sorry to say this, but you are far too willing to listen to people who you think know better than you, (school and the idiots who decided your parenting was at fault when your same parenting has not resulted in similar behaviour for your other children) so you cannot see that your son is being failed on all levels.

Your son is not just a naughty boy with some odd personality traits. He has difficulties that are way beyond being NT and he needs help and support now, the longer you leave it, the more difficult it will be for all of you.

babies I understand how you feel as I have also been embarrassed by seeking professional support for my ds.

I have read everything you wrote and I'd go to a pardiatrician and I would privately pay for a few sessions with an occupational therapist as a lot of the behaviours are sounding like sensory processing as others have already said. Ours has been amazing and I think it was the best money we ever spent!

Sorry to come back to this (I have ASD too!) and highjack this thread!

Here are some very helpful videos by the brilliant Dr. Tony Attwood:

The itself starts at 5 1/2 minutes point.

Anyone seen these before?

DS had a great week at coding club this week. We have been telling him daily that he has to behave, plus the leader gave them another lecture at the start of the lesson. Apparently DS was much better behaved, hurrah.

Glad that all has gone well at coding club but yabu to ignore the many signs that something isn't right.
Sitting on the stairs upset until your friends go home, hugging anyone and everyone and the sensory sensitivities you describe are not anywhere near in the range of typical.
It is not unusual at all for high functioning kids to be misdiagnosed when they are young and diagnosed with asd in their teens or even in adulthood. And it isn't unusual for schools to downplay issues at school that could prove costly/time consuming to address. There is also a genetic component to asd and you mentioned your brother has it?
I can see that you have been through the mill with assessments but I think you would b v.unreasonable not to get a second opinion here.