To ignore hints about problems ?

[Babieseverywhere]

My 8yo DS has no friends.

He has one classmate who he will play computer games with at his house but does not play with this child at school.

School say he is happy and has lots of friends at school, which is reassuring but no play dates or party invites since reception.

I have stopped trying playdates at home as DS sits on the stairs upset until guest child goes home.

So I decided to stop attempting play dates and send him to clubs which have activities instead.

I send him to an after school club which is run by the teachers. The teacher said he enjoys it. DD1 also attends this club and says her brother messes around and doesn't follow instructions. However the teachers have not reported anything, so it must be minor.

DS also goes to Cubs and a computer coding class. This is where the AIBU bit comes in. Both clubs have mentioned that he is enthusiastic and runs around a lot. They ask if he is doing ok at school/home.

AIBU to just nod along and say everything is fine (which I have done several times now) when I am pretty sure they are hinting he is causing some level of problem because I am terrified they will stop him going and he will be gutted ?

With the coding club, please tell them what you told us about him loving the club, and talking about it afterwards, I'm sure they'd love to know how important their club is to him. I would say that he doesn't have a formal diagnosis but that he does experience some sensory issues which cause him to fidget and that he sometimes finds it difficult to remember behaviour rules. You want to work with them to ensure he can continue to participate because he absolutely loves it.

It does sound to me that you have been somewhat fobbed off. A little like diagnosing 'stress' because the GP can't get to the bottom of a myriad of symptoms. Only for later when the disease is more established to give an accurate diagnosis.

My son is similar and so far they don't think he has ASD but I have my doubts. I obviously want to believe he is just going through a phase but when I watch his behaviour by comparison to his peers, he is behaving very very differently.

I would be trying to work more closely with the school to be honest. If he is expressing suicidal thoughts and feeling sad he has no friends, it's not acceptable for the school to just brush it off and say all is well. The clubs I would just keep nodding until they actually come to you with specific issues.

He doesn't interact much with the other kids, beyond pointing out errors in their coding and hugging children if they get close enough.

He is very smart and the coding is far too easy for him. He is programmin his own adventure game in scratch at home under DH and I help (we are both programmers)

We are sorting out a robotic kit for his raspberry pi for Christmas (money permitting) I aim to introduce him to Python and visual basic soon.

I send him tov the club, as he is interested in coding and to practise socialising or at least observing peer behaviour.

OP if he is on the spectrum (which is at least possible), it is very unlikely that he will be able to learn from observing peer behaviour: he simply won't understand what he sees. It will be like hoping he could learn through listening to a teacher who spoke in Japanese.

Some very good suggestions have been made on the thread re occupational therapists and ways to speak to the club (ThirdThoughts). I would also make the most of the SN part of this forum: there are wonderful and wise and supportive people on there.

You do need to accept that he is getting to an age where other children may find random hugging strange and maybe even threatening. They are learning about bodily autonomy. He may need some extra help for that- and a lot of extra understanding.

If he falls apart at high school, I don't know what we will do...just pray it doesn't happen.

School are clear that he is just playing us for fools. Saying bad things to make us worry and then skip off to his happy life at school. I spend a lot of time hopeing they are right.

He is very rule bound at school and apart from not realising how bright he really is, he seems to be kicking around the bottom level of academic achievements. Which means the school are happy with him and see for no need for any help.

Re assessment. The high level consultant made it clear that I was a crazy mother wanting something wrong with her normal child and that I was making up problems, as school saw nothing a miss.

So that door was firmly closed on both sides. I embarrassed myself last time, I am not going to repeat my mistake. I will find ways to help my perfectly normal wonderful son gave the best happiest life in can have as a family.

DS had a full assessment by CAMHS and we were told he was NT, we subsequently applied for two more assessments explaining the difficulties he was having and they said he was fine - NT.

It took until he was 16 and at serious risk of suicide for CAMHS to reassess and acknowledge that DS had aspergers.

Oh they apologised for the delay in diagnosis, but that really didn't help DS who had spent years in misery which could have been avoided.

Worst of DS' "symptoms" started at 8.

Cannot overemphasise the need to reassess

Please don't give up on getting a diagnosis for something.

I'm a Brownie leader and a teacher in a school for children with ASD, and he definitely sounds like he has ADHD or ASD (or both). One of my Brownies (aged 8) has just been diagnosed with ADHD. I've known her since she joined Rainbows at 5, and I was sure she had either ADHD or ASD back then. Everyone else just labelled her as naughty (school, other parents, other leaders). I held off talking to her mum about her behaviour as I didn't want to offend her, but I wish I had spoken to her now as it might've helped her get a diagnosis quicker. She came away with us recently and we put measures in place to help her and another girl (who we think has ASD) to manage their behaviour. Positive reinforcement helped a LOT, as did making sure they knew exactly what we expected of them. She was still quite disruptive, but she thrives off negative attention, so we tried to ignore this as much as possible.

I think you need to have an honest discussion with the club leaders and tell them what you've done already, and ask how you can help. Remember they aren't experts in behavioural issues, so they won't be able to pinpoint exactly what he needs. The Cub leaders certainly shouldn't exclude him as Scouting should be inclusive (Girlguiding is for sure).

I asked the school to discourage the hugging, they think I am over worrying about an affectionate child. But when he will hug anyone he meets, it worries me.

He has been fully assessed and there is no reason you should have to tolerate any poor behaviour off my son and I have no idea how to get him to sit still and focus myself BUT please keep him in your club...as it means the world to him and it the only time in the week that he stops saying how stupid he is and he smiles as he shines and excells at programming

Actually I would tell them that.
And I would ask them how you can help and see what sort of behaviour they see tha is not desirable (so you can help him at home with said behaviour).

I agree with other posters. My experience with CAMHS is that, unless the issue is really big, you don't get a diagnosis. The fact they said it was your parenting and then couldn't find anything wrong with I says a lot IMO. Let's put all the responsibility onto the parents shoulders even though we can't find anything wrong with what they do ... :(:(
In the mean time, though your u can do a lot at home to teach him to fit better in group settings. Yes u can teach him to be better at spotting his own behaviour etc... I would aslo involve the school TBH and ask them precisely how he is at school. Again experience tells me that it's not because they don't tell you things that they havent Noticed anything.

And YY about telling them about any strategies that your u know might be working at home.

Oh and the only poor parenting I would see is accepting the CAMHS diagnosis and not doing more.

Friend has a son who also spoke of suicide, school said behaviour caused by reaction to breakdown in marriage, CAMHS said no problems and sent parents to parenting classes. She ended up paying privately, her son now has an ASD diagnosis and is getting counselling for his suicidal impulses.

The coding club had a short intro talk this week. About how they are not teachers they are volunteers and it is up to very child to behave, as they were only there to share the joys of coding not shout at them.

I feel this speech was aimed at my DS (only 8 kids in the club)
If I go and talk to them, I suspect they will say they don't want to deal with DS behaviour and they discourage parents hanging around, so I doubt they would welcome my offer to stay with him.

I think if I bring up this issue, they will tell me to stop bringing him.

When you say "school are saying," who do you mean exactly? A whole succession of experienced teachers, the Senco or the Head Teacher? Or do you mean his current teacher who might, for all we know, be an NQT 23 year old, fresh out of college and with respect, know very little?

I think you need to bring it up. If you don't it looks like they are going to ask him to leave anyway.

Also. I'm hesitant about this. From your replies, I'm sensing a very rigid all or nothing, black or white thinking. It could simply be that you are exhausted at the idea of exploring diagnosis again as you feel that path is completely explored.

But I'll say it anyway. This sort of thinking is ideal for a programmer, what with computers working in 0s and 1s. It's not always a bad thing. But it is very common in people with aspergers/ASD (and also in those who are depressed).

I wonder if your son's traits remind you of you or your partner? I am honestly not trying to insult you, I am an undiagnosed adult and believe I have Aspergers so it is something suggested out of affinity, not scorn.

If it is possible that there are family traits of ASD, even if they are not limiting enough to be diagnosed, it might shine light on your son's traits?

School claim he is perfectly happen and well behaved at school even through his siblings and other kids at the school report a whole other story.

Frankly I have closed that door too. That is why I continue to send him to the school after club, even when his sister is upset about his behaviour. Whilst the teacher smiles and tells what a good time he had, I will keep sending him. I have to believe the adult in this situation.

You sound very closed and passive about your DS. Like you've given up.

Two years of assessments sounds hard.

But why have you accepted you are a poor parent to him?

And why have you accepted his behaviour as normal when it really doesn't sound normal?

You detail all the things that show how he's not

You say you parent him in the same way you parent your other children. That concerns me, as he's obviously very different to your other children. Do you have specific techniques in dealing with him? That focus on his individual needs? Is it that you've given up on trying to respond to his individual needs, because you've been told he has no individual needs? Which is clearly untrue by the way! Or is it that you do actually tailor your parenting to him but now don't say that because you feel somehow bound to telling the party line CAMHS have imposed on you?

I wonder if you'd benefit from a parenting course? I'd read on here that people have found them useful even if they've been sent on one as part of trying to get to a diagnosis for their child.

Now, onto the subject of the clubs:

Why on earth would you suggest saying to the club 'there is no reason why you should have to tolerate poor behaviour off my son and I have no idea how to get him to sit still and focus myself.., '?!

Are you really thinking of saying that? Why? Because it sounds like you are saying that he's naughty for no reason and he should be treated and judged as a naughty child (& you should be judged as a bad parent?!)... Yet I don't think you mean this really?

You need to get a bit of fight back! Be your child's advocate and champion in these situations. He needs you to be there for him otherwise people WILL treat him as the naughty child who is too out of control.

Which won't be good for him at all.

It's clear from what you've said here that it's not because he's just a naughty little boy!

Why tell them there's nothing wrong when he's clearly not doing things or experiencing things the same as other children?

Just because you didn't get one diagnosis, doesn't mean to say he's not got any special needs.

You could say to them 'there are clearly issues but we haven't got to the bottom of them yet, but yes, he finds it very hard to concentrate, as you've noticed' and then you could say 'we've tried X, X and X, which help a bit, but it's still a struggle'
So, saying what is the reality of the situation but inviting people to empathise and see your child as needing extra help, not extra punishments. It also shows you won't tolerate people writing him off.

And if it seems right, you could even ask them 'so wondering what experience you have with children with these kind of sn? And whether you have any strategies you'd use for focusing attention etc '

And then you can ignore stuff that you know doesn't work, but it gets them thinking about supporting DS, and trying out different ways of helping him concentrate, beyond telling him off or excluding him.

Finally, through all your posts there seems to be this tension between you passively saying you believe the 'experts', then listing symptoms and problems that are clearly not 'normal'. So under the passive acceptance, I sense... maybe I'm imagining it, but I sense seething anger, resentment?! Probably desperation too?

That's not a criticism, it's a hope! I hope you've got some anger to channel into getting up and steeling yourself to keep trying to find ways to help your DS. And I'm sorry you're in this situation, it sounds terrible. Have you tried going on the special needs boards here? There are many people who are going through 'the system' and fighting for their child. It might be of help?

He needs you to fight for him. I know is bloody tough, but please don't give up on him.

Btw, this bit is exactly what you should be saying!

"please keep him in your club...as it means the world to him and it the only time in the week that he stops saying how stupid he is and he smiles as he shines and excells at programming"

Sorry, but just cos the school say he has friends and is happy doesn't make it true.
My daughter's school assured me all the way through that my daughter was happy, popular amongst her peers, etc.

Only when she left did teachers start confessing there was a real "clique" problem in the class, and if you weren't in the clique (and my daughter wasn't) then life was very difficult for you (there were only about 10 girls in the class anyway).

Are your posts slightly tongue in cheek OP. Do you really believe authority that much that CAHMS/school/consultant are right and all these red flags are just normal.

This is a really difficult one, because there is lots of conflicting information about his abilities and his behaviour. I don't want to say I think he has SN because there is a possibility he doesn't and he doesn't have clear boundaries. Only you can decide whether you think you are firm enough with him and whether you are ensuring that he understands the behaviour expected of him at school and at the clubs he wants to go to. In the meantime you could continue to try to have possible SN investigated. Good luck.

You say that he is working on an advanced coding project at home. Have you or he shared this with the people who run the coding club? If the people see that he has a real love and talent for the subject, they will very likely find other ways around the difficulties (perhaps with your help) because they will empathise with his enthusiasm and realise his fidgeting doesn't come from dissinterest/boredum.

Perhaps, your son could find a 'place' socially at the group by helping others if it is something he finds easy? Or maybe they could set him a tougher challenge.

Does he sit reasonably when working on his project at home? Are there strategies your partner has to keep him focused?

I don't think any of us can make any sort of diagnosis on the internet, BUT the OP herself has said that there are clearly some professionals who know him and have dealt with him and seem to be saying that there's something amiss.
I know you've had assessments done, but I can't help thinking you're determined to bury your head in the sand on this one by refusing to go any further with it. I get that, but long-term, surely it's better to have some sort of diagnosis, even if it's not what you want to hear, so that you can help him better?

School wise.

In year 1, the peak of his physical hitting snd screaming and refusal to walk to school. We had an experienced teacher who went out of her way to help. Including leaving her class with the ta and walking the streets to find us, late trying to get him into school. He would sit on the pavement refusing to move and fight and scream if I lifted him but if his teacher tapped him on the shoulder...he would stand up and walk after her like a lamb. She was wonderful. When I explained putting him outside the classroom made him behaviour worse, as he is afraid of bring on his own (even now won't go upstairs or sleep unless he has someone with him)
She made the time out corner on the classroom. Honestly if it was not for her support, he would of not been in school that year. With my permission, she let DS hug her and he would use the contact to calm himself.

But when I asked school to help, they closed ranks and made it clear they didn't see any need to do more than they do for the other kids. It is a good school. I like the staff and my daughters thrive there but by asking for offical help, I was just causing problems.

The next two year teachers were nice and newly qualified and denied any problems even whilst punishing him for the bad behaviour they told me he didn't do !
The second one asked about him being upset and crying all the time...One of my original complaints about needing support. I was shocked and said I had asked for support on that basis but apparently he was always happy at school. She seemed further advice and never came back to me.

During this time the deputy head I highly respect said I should accept he was doing as well as expected academically...aka he is not so bright.
Later that year the Head invited my husband and I in for a meeting, where he shouted at us for our ongoing assessment path and asking them for help. He thought we were complaining about the school...which we were not. Luckily we had a third party arrive at that point and whilst I wept she calmed him down.

Now we have accepted DS needs no help, things have calmed down at school.

TBH it is not a school issue it is just that DS struggles to sit down and concentrate I. E. Naughty school boy.

There are no red flags. I only see ked help because things were very unfamiliar to me. All the expects agree he is in the normal range for these traits. I am not an expert, I gave it all my attention and effort for two years should I spend the next two heading my head against the same brick wall ?

I am glad I have made the decision to address upcoming issues and just look at how I can make things better for DS whilst he is still young enough to enjoy these clubs.