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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to give people assistance with claiming PIP?

437 replies

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 25/10/2016 22:08

No, of course I'm not BU. I'm just posting here for traffic. Name changed, obvs.

Bit of background; I was a PIP Disability Assessor for a while this year, until I decided that I couldn't work within the system with a good conscience, and left. I witnessed DA's who were trying their best, mostly, to help people with their claims. They (and I) were hamstrung both by our immediate employers, and a system (whether by accident or design) that discriminated against claimants with certain conditions. In the spirit of the release of 'I, Daniel Blake', which isn't about PIP but other failures of the benefit system, I've decided to give some general advice to those looking to claim PIP.

Firstly, let's look at initially making the claim. I would say the most vital point is this; PROVIDE EVIDENCE. The way that the claim form/questionnaire is worded implies that the DWP/ATOS/CAPITA or whoever will chase letters from GPS, specialists etc to back up your claim for you. In my experience, this doesn't happen. The onus is on you to provide this information, although it would be very easy to assume the opposite. Some photocopies of a recent prescription, letters detailing diagnoses and appointment dates, and evidence of secondary care involvement (especially people with mental health conditions) provide good evidence; if you haven't provided anything, then the DA has to go mostly on that short assessment with you. You may be horribly unwell or disabled for 5 days a week, if you're having a 'good day' on the assessment however, then your claim is in trouble. Evidence, Evidence, Evidence; I can't stress that enough. Don't let the DWP have the easy option; the decision they make is heavily dependent on the report written by the health professional that assesses you. The decision maker at the DWP has no medical qualifications of any sort.

If you have disabilities that cause you to have problems getting out (especially severe MH conditions), ask for a home assessment. The way the system is, if you have a MH condition involving severe anxiety or depression, or agoraphobia; then you attend a clinic appointment, it can be used as evidence that you aren't as bad as you claim that you are. The reasoning is that you can't be that ill if you can get to a clinic appointment. It's profoundly unfair, and a large part of why I left. Once again; evidence is so important.

Don't assume that the health professional that sees you knows much about your condition. In a working and well-designed system, those with certain conditions would be given appointments with HP's with a specialism in that area. It ain't so. You could get a general or MH nurse, an Occupational Therapist, a Physio or a Paramedic. It's completely random. If you can bring along a health professional of your own, then do. I'd advise anyone against attending by themselves. That's not because I don't trust the DA's; the vast majority are good people. It's just easy to forget things, and people with severe MH problems or learning disabilities/Autism really need an advocate of some sort.

If you're asked to do a set of 12 exercises (it's called the Musculoskeletal exam, or MSK), be sensible! I had people trying to please me by trying to do these despite evident pain; tell the DA why it would be difficult for you to do it. If you cannot do it, just do what you can and explain why. Completing those ridiculous exercises at personal cost, especially pain, will count against you. Don't make stuff up to help your claim (they'll see straight through it, and assume that you're dishonest), but don't put yourself at risk of harm by doing something that you can't. The DA has to take your safety into consideration when assessing what you can and can't do. Once again, evidence is key. If you need aids or adaptations to walk, or need to wear wrist supports etc, then bring/wear them. Help the DA to help you. They normally will.

Talking of assessments, if you report any MH conditions at all, then the DA will be observing you throughout the assessment for a Mental State Examination (MSE). In my opinion, this is even more badly designed that the MSK. A HP, who may or may not have any MH experience at all, will continually assess your mood, behaviour, anxiety etc throughout the assessment. It's completely subjective. If you have a serious MH condition, if you are in pain, if you are distressed or anxious then let it show to the DA. The stiff upper lip is the worst possible approach.

We were told that those 45 minutes were key. If a consultant wrote that you couldn't do something, then you did it in that 45 minute assessment (good day or not) then the weight of evidence would be on the assessment.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that PIP discriminates against those with learning disabilities or MH conditions. Seriously. It's appalling. If you are turned down, then PLEASE appeal. You'd be surprised how many obtain PIP through appeal; it's often through providing further evidence. Don't give the DWP the chance to deny your rightful claim in the first place; provide that evidence when you first fill in the forms.

OP posts:
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whatishistory · 29/10/2016 13:42

The system seems so random. I have bipolar and get the higher rate of living allowance on PIP. I was awarded it without a face to face assessment and they didn't consult my CPN or psychiatrist. I provided copies of my own mood diary, my medication, dates of admissions and when I was under the crisis team. I was surprised because I was preparing myself for the long haul.

Maybe the hospital admissions every few months made the difference. But then I've heard of people with similar problems and they're denied PIP. I know I filled my form out well. I gave specific examples of episodes with dates that corresponded to my admissions and mood diary. I sent in about 4 pages of typed information.

Is there a postcode lottery at play here? Or do applications all go to the same central department?

holme4andy · 29/10/2016 14:04

Perhaps people who live in 'Tory' areas might be more likely to get ESA and PIP payments !.

Think about it they would not want people in 'shire' towns that vote Conservative seeing desperate people 'die' in front of them thus making the poor and vulnerable invisible to potential voters.

Also Conservative voting areas are also likely to have less benefit claimants, because they are more likely to be affluent !

holme4andy · 29/10/2016 14:08

Perhaps each area has a 'maximum' amount of money that can be spent on benefit payments. Maybe because a Tory town has relatively low no of claimants they became more likely to get benefits....

WankingMonkey · 29/10/2016 15:13

Thank you for this. I was denied PIP, but only by a couple of points and it was changed pretty quickly on mandatory reconsideration. The PIP advisor did note most things..along with taking a while to look through my evidence (she said she had already read it but went over it again with me) I said but she understated a couple of issues, which the decision maker accepted hence me getting the extra few points. However my ESA assesment was the absolute opposite. He wouldn't even look at evidence I provided, which included a thick letter detailing my illness from my consultant, along with (at the time) at least twice monthly A+E visits and the very strong (oxycodone..along with others) medication I was on constantly to have even a half normal life. He outright lied about the assessment. I got 0 points and had to go to tribunal which took 2 years. At the tribunal I didn't even have to say ANYTHING. As soon as I entered I was told they were changing the decision before they even spoke to me. This was 3 months ago and I have now been called for a reassesment...nothing has changed but I expect I will be cured all over again :S

whatishistory · 29/10/2016 17:09

I'm definitely not in a Tory area. I'm in Scotland. In a city with a lot of poverty and unemployment--although we're doing OK ourselves.

holme4andy · 29/10/2016 17:14

I presume 'Whats' that the Benefit system in Scotland is run by Westminister .?

Does the Scottish Government have no control over benefit payments.

BTW2017 · 29/10/2016 23:20

Do you have any advice for people applying for PIP who have hearing problems at all? It isn't like they can do tests in different environments so we can "prove" the problems we have.

ConvincingLiar · 30/10/2016 07:29

BTW2017 have you seen this? www.actiononhearingloss.org.uk/~/media/Files/Factsheets/Benefits/pdf/Personal%20independence%20Payment_v1_April_14.ashx

WankingMonkey make sure to provide the new ESA assessor and decision maker with a copy of the tribunal's recent decision. Did it include a recommendation for when you should be reassessed? It's not binding, but might help. Although if it took you such a long time to get to a tribunal then you might be due for reassessment now anyway.

whatishistory · 30/10/2016 08:00

Holme. Yes, PIP in Scotland is the same as elsewhere. I've been wondering whether applications are assessed at a regional base, in which case maybe PIP can be harder to get in some postcodes than others. (?)

seasidesally · 30/10/2016 13:00

on the radio Wave 105 this morning they said the Goverment are going to review the work test on ESa to get people back to work

Conservative's want a major overhaul,

sorry cant link at the moment

seasidesally · 30/10/2016 13:05

to add last week i did read that some chronic conditions longterm will be exempt from the test if their was no chance of an improvement

so mixed bag if its true

Soozikinzi · 30/10/2016 13:21

My husband had a stroke and had to give up work as a teacher.we had a couple of these awful interviews until they he got his occupational pension so didn't qualify for any payments and we still have to pay back the money he got till his pension came through.He was in tears after each interview. I recently thought that his state pension my be short a couple of years due to him not going for the awful interviews anymore even though we aren't entitled to any benefits could still get the pension credits but I honestly can't put him through the interviews again.

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 30/10/2016 14:09

If anyone is in Wales, you might find this interesting;

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b080ysnh

OP posts:
IwasateenagePIPassessor · 30/10/2016 14:14

OP I saw your first post on a private Facebook page before reading this thread. Your message is spreading! Thanks so much for taking the time x

On a what now? How is that possible?

OP posts:
NowYouSeeMeNowYouDont · 30/10/2016 17:56

Monkey the same thing happened to me after ESA appeal put me in the support group. Within a week they sent me for assessment! I called and had to argue the toss, and they backed down because the appeal judges had to be followed they said. Even if you've waited 2 years for appeal, your appeal is very recent so should still count as 'current'. Good luck.

MommaGee · 31/10/2016 01:54

Bump

pam290358 · 31/10/2016 15:30

When you say you were hamstrung by your employers, can you be a bit more specific ? I'm currently trying to help a lady with Spina Bifida who had a home assessment and the assessor had an in depth conversation with her and her mum (who is her carer) regarding the use of a perching stool. The assessor agreed that it would be unsafe for her to use a perching stool because of her physical problems. Yet on the assessment report there is no mention of this detailed conversation and the assessor appears to have changed her mind and assessed her as quite capable of using one. Is it possible that someone else has brought pressure to bear on this decision ? Also she has been denied points despite detailing essential monitoring of a health condition which she cannot do herself - the decision maker said that this was because although she detailed it n the PIP2 form, it was not discussed at the assessment. Surely the assessor should have brought this up if it was on a form right in front of her ? She had supporting medical evidence from her GP which was specific to both matters and yet this was ignored at the reconsideration request and the decision was not changed. We are now preparing for tribunal so any advice would be warmly welcomed - and thank you for the original post, it's hugely helpful.

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 31/10/2016 15:45

I had a quick check that I was using this username again, rather than my usual one.

Is it possible that someone else has brought pressure to bear on this decision?

Very much so, Pam.
There was an audit team that reviewed every one of our assessments before it was sent to the DWP. I have no doubt in my mind that there is pressure applied by this team downwards onto DAs for them to change their assessments. I've experienced it myself; I felt that a claimant deserved a high points score for their assessment, yet the audit team (not present at the assessment) wanted me to rewrite the report to reduce the PIP score dramatically. I told them no. Hence the resignation.

OP posts:
MyVisionsComeFromSoup · 31/10/2016 16:01

what's the situation when the most recent medical report (letter from consultant to GP) is over three years old? DD was described as coping well with her condition, but at the time she was in Y11, and I was doing all her washing, cooking, reminding about medication etc, and school were being incredibly supportive about attendance, so minimising her stress levels and triggers as much as possible. Now she's at uni, having to manage everything, and about to be transferring to PIP, but her consultant's appointment (which was supposed to be Feb 16) is not until June 17, well after her DLA finishes.

How will that be viewed by an assessor? She's not being seen regularly, so therefore she must be OK? Or understanding of the pressures the NHS is under?

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 31/10/2016 16:31

How will that be viewed by an assessor? She's not being seen regularly, so therefore she must be OK? Or understanding of the pressures the NHS is under?

In my experience, the pressure will be on the DA to do the first option. It depends on a few things though; have a word with the Gp to see if he/she can help, or if there's any pastoral or nursing services available at the uni who could write something for you.
It depends if it's a fluctuating condition or not too. It certainly helps to have a letter confirming diagnosis.

OP posts:
IwasateenagePIPassessor · 31/10/2016 16:32

I might be able to help more if I knew her condition. PM me if you'd prefer.

OP posts:
MyVisionsComeFromSoup · 31/10/2016 16:57

have PMed you, but for lurkers, in this particular case, a GP will have no idea about the condition, nor any clue how to manage it. Medications are unlicensed hospital-only prescription, so no GP input there.

So a copy of a Student Support Plan and Disabled Student Allowance assessment would be useful then? They will hopefully be in place this term. We also have a very good care plan I wrote for the school, so that was in place up till July this year, therefore a bit more current.

pam290358 · 31/10/2016 17:17

Is it legal for th DWP to deny points for a condition you detailed on the PIP 2 if it is not discussed at the assessment -as per my original post ? Am horrified that assessor are asked to downgrade reports although I had a feeling this happens. So there is no hope of a fair assessment then ?

NameChangedForPIP · 31/10/2016 17:33

Wow - this thread has appeared at just the right time !

Got my PIP forms (a week late !!!! Hmm) last week. So mysteriously I have a week less time to complete it.

Anyway, had a very good friend around over the weekend, and she has really helped me out (she's a project manager in real life, so knows how to write reports).

We went through all my medical letters (at least a hundred) and selected ones which reinforced or referenced problems I have had with various activities (this was the longest bit, as I broke down a bit when I realised what a dead loss I am Sad ... it was just a list of things I can't do, but used to be be able to ...)

Anyway, my friend has created a file which mirrors the PIP form (and managed to print the unique code-thing on it too), and then I have answered each question as best I can, and added some explanations for the last section which them refers to one of the letters I'm including. For example, one of the effects of my condition is recurrent UTIs unless I catheterise 4 times daily. But when my fingers are playing up, my carer needs to help. There are 8 letters referencing UTIs and the need to catheterise which are mentioned in the text.

WE think we havce finished, but decided to put the document to one side for a week, and then revisit it, and if it still makes sense, send it back. No worries if the "lose" it - we can knock out as many copies as they can take.

Will report back ... funnily enough, this is the most fun I have had in ages !!!! I will not let them grind me down !!!!!!!!!

My friend found this, which may help some ...

www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/pip/indexxx.php

MyVisionsComeFromSoup · 31/10/2016 17:58

totally recommend the Benefits and Work site - they regularly have discounts on membership, so it's work checking every so often