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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to give people assistance with claiming PIP?

437 replies

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 25/10/2016 22:08

No, of course I'm not BU. I'm just posting here for traffic. Name changed, obvs.

Bit of background; I was a PIP Disability Assessor for a while this year, until I decided that I couldn't work within the system with a good conscience, and left. I witnessed DA's who were trying their best, mostly, to help people with their claims. They (and I) were hamstrung both by our immediate employers, and a system (whether by accident or design) that discriminated against claimants with certain conditions. In the spirit of the release of 'I, Daniel Blake', which isn't about PIP but other failures of the benefit system, I've decided to give some general advice to those looking to claim PIP.

Firstly, let's look at initially making the claim. I would say the most vital point is this; PROVIDE EVIDENCE. The way that the claim form/questionnaire is worded implies that the DWP/ATOS/CAPITA or whoever will chase letters from GPS, specialists etc to back up your claim for you. In my experience, this doesn't happen. The onus is on you to provide this information, although it would be very easy to assume the opposite. Some photocopies of a recent prescription, letters detailing diagnoses and appointment dates, and evidence of secondary care involvement (especially people with mental health conditions) provide good evidence; if you haven't provided anything, then the DA has to go mostly on that short assessment with you. You may be horribly unwell or disabled for 5 days a week, if you're having a 'good day' on the assessment however, then your claim is in trouble. Evidence, Evidence, Evidence; I can't stress that enough. Don't let the DWP have the easy option; the decision they make is heavily dependent on the report written by the health professional that assesses you. The decision maker at the DWP has no medical qualifications of any sort.

If you have disabilities that cause you to have problems getting out (especially severe MH conditions), ask for a home assessment. The way the system is, if you have a MH condition involving severe anxiety or depression, or agoraphobia; then you attend a clinic appointment, it can be used as evidence that you aren't as bad as you claim that you are. The reasoning is that you can't be that ill if you can get to a clinic appointment. It's profoundly unfair, and a large part of why I left. Once again; evidence is so important.

Don't assume that the health professional that sees you knows much about your condition. In a working and well-designed system, those with certain conditions would be given appointments with HP's with a specialism in that area. It ain't so. You could get a general or MH nurse, an Occupational Therapist, a Physio or a Paramedic. It's completely random. If you can bring along a health professional of your own, then do. I'd advise anyone against attending by themselves. That's not because I don't trust the DA's; the vast majority are good people. It's just easy to forget things, and people with severe MH problems or learning disabilities/Autism really need an advocate of some sort.

If you're asked to do a set of 12 exercises (it's called the Musculoskeletal exam, or MSK), be sensible! I had people trying to please me by trying to do these despite evident pain; tell the DA why it would be difficult for you to do it. If you cannot do it, just do what you can and explain why. Completing those ridiculous exercises at personal cost, especially pain, will count against you. Don't make stuff up to help your claim (they'll see straight through it, and assume that you're dishonest), but don't put yourself at risk of harm by doing something that you can't. The DA has to take your safety into consideration when assessing what you can and can't do. Once again, evidence is key. If you need aids or adaptations to walk, or need to wear wrist supports etc, then bring/wear them. Help the DA to help you. They normally will.

Talking of assessments, if you report any MH conditions at all, then the DA will be observing you throughout the assessment for a Mental State Examination (MSE). In my opinion, this is even more badly designed that the MSK. A HP, who may or may not have any MH experience at all, will continually assess your mood, behaviour, anxiety etc throughout the assessment. It's completely subjective. If you have a serious MH condition, if you are in pain, if you are distressed or anxious then let it show to the DA. The stiff upper lip is the worst possible approach.

We were told that those 45 minutes were key. If a consultant wrote that you couldn't do something, then you did it in that 45 minute assessment (good day or not) then the weight of evidence would be on the assessment.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that PIP discriminates against those with learning disabilities or MH conditions. Seriously. It's appalling. If you are turned down, then PLEASE appeal. You'd be surprised how many obtain PIP through appeal; it's often through providing further evidence. Don't give the DWP the chance to deny your rightful claim in the first place; provide that evidence when you first fill in the forms.

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MuffinMad · 31/10/2016 18:43

NameChangedForPip, I have completed my PIP form and am now looking forward Hmm to my assessment next week. Everyone is talking about about gathering evidence and you have said in your post about having a 100 letters!

I don't have anything at all! All I have is what I have told them.

I have no evidence in paper form. All I have is what my GP has in her notes.
Does anyone know if they have been awarded PIP without letters or written evidence?

NowYouSeeMeNowYouDont · 31/10/2016 23:55

Op, do the CM or assessors have knowledge of actual medical conditions? I find it incredible that for degenerative problem such as multiple sclerosis, they seem to view everyone as perfectly fit and healthy. Do they miss the news where people with MS canvas for euthanasia? It's so confusing because when you talk to people in the street they all know MS is bad. Same could be said for recent cardiac surgery. Same could be said for any well-known chronic disease that is incurable.

SusanneLinder · 01/11/2016 01:19

I am a Welfare Rights Advisor and I echo the OP. I represent at appeals and have a high success rate.It is also very very important to fill in the PIP2 questionnaire properly. This is the best guidance I have seen
www.swansea.gov.uk/pip
If you scroll down, there is a pdf file on how to complete the form

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 01/11/2016 09:08

Op, do the CM or assessors have knowledge of actual medical conditions?

The DAs are health professionals, but everyone has different specialisations. If by CM you mean the Case Managers at the DWP, then no. They have no medical background or qualifications.

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Dawndonnaagain · 01/11/2016 14:39

Does anyone know if I can find some sort of professional to attend with me. I was completely bamboozled last time and she took no notice of what I was trying to say. eg. When asked what I would eat if I felt like eating, I said I would probably have chicken and salad, but wasn't eating. It was then put on my form that as I could have chicken and salad I didn't have an eating disorder. I need someone to support me to be firm with them and to give me time to process the questions and to answer them thoroughly.

BTW2017 · 01/11/2016 22:08

ConvincingLiar thank you for the link, I'll have a read now.

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 06/11/2016 16:02

Bumpetity bump; this is on Tuesday night for anyone interested.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b080ysnh

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ConvincingLiar · 06/11/2016 16:15

Don't rely on evidence from age 17 for a 20 year old. It would be less of a problem for a mature aged person with a static condition. See if you can get something from the GP with how she is now.

ginghamstarfish · 07/11/2016 17:15

I'm now up to the stage of appealing to the Upper Tribunal. Was not able to get any help until very recently and that only by contacting my MP. Wish I had got help at the beginning, and would say to anyone applying, take your time to get help and get it right before starting. I too don't have lots of medical letters etc, basically because I don't go to the GP much anymore as there's nothing to be done, but even if you just get a letter saying that, it's helpful.

WankingMonkey · 07/11/2016 19:04

Dawndonnaagain

I am not sure if you can get professionals to go to the 'medical' with you, but if you fail this (with 0 points like most people no doubt) I recommend 'welfare rights'. I am in the north east and I can contact them by calling the council. Not sure how it works elsewhere but my advisor said it was a countrywide thing. They are absolutely fantastic and have something like a 90% success rate for tribunals. Hope that helps a bit.

leapyearbaby · 07/11/2016 20:09

Hi I've shared this on a message board for younger people who have had strokes that i am on. Lots of gratitude to pass on. Thank you OP.

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 08/11/2016 13:06

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-37900898

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KayTee87 · 08/11/2016 13:12

Thank you so much op you are a star.

I fill in my BILs forms as he has LD and id unable to, so far we've had no issues however I don't know how long that will continue so your advice could be invaluable. I've copied it and saved it in the memos on my phone for the next form we get.

I dread them Sad

primitivemom · 08/11/2016 18:19

Hello iwas, thankyou so much for this information, your an angel x Can i ask a ? i have been on a 5 year award for dla and its almost coming to an end. I had a 2 year award before that. I have bipolar disorder, anxiety and depression. can you tell me how likely it is that i will get another award? i am so anxious about losing my award as its my independance. I cant work and hardly leave the house. When i do , i always have my carer with me. I have been worried sick they are going to cut my award as there is no way i can work, I haven't seen my cmht recently as the doctor i saw last was very derogatory and i just couldn't take to her, what should i do? should i request a home visit? also what happens at a home visit? previously went to the clinic, but i don't think i could make it there this time as i am worse than before at getting out. any help would be greatly appreciated xxxx

LovelyBath77 · 08/11/2016 18:45

A couple of things about evidence- firstly if you speak to your consultant's secretary they should copy you in to the letters from them to your GP. This is free and useful. Also you could see your GP about doing a care plan, this details your conditions and medications. You can use this to help you manage your condition and also for things like PIP.

LovelyBath77 · 08/11/2016 18:47

The MP can help with speeding up the process as well. I've had the problem where the appeal was won, and DWP were saying they 'hadn't been sent the information' even though I sent them my own copy of the decision notice (copied) recorded (don't trust them at all). MP emailed them and was sorted out in less than a week.

LovelyBath77 · 08/11/2016 18:53

The Appeals are meant to be fairer, though. Maybe best to just treat the DWP process as not the end point and go to Appeal? I think they are supposed to be having a new way of doing the appeals, not sure if it will help or hinder. Making it more streamlined or something.

PIPquestionPIP · 08/11/2016 19:11

I have a PIP question please :)

What happens if your PIP is awarded based on the needs of condition A but then you are diagnosed with condition B instead? No changes to needs or anything, just the condition that causes the needs.

Will the PIP be cancelled and the person have to reapply? That's the situation I'm and was told a case manager will look at it and decide whether a new application needs to be done or whether my current claim can just have a note put on but still haven't heard anything so I'm living in fear week by week that my PIP will end without warning so if anyone knows either way :)

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 08/11/2016 19:35

I'm still here; I'll try and answer some questions tomorrow.

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IwasateenagePIPassessor · 09/11/2016 18:29

There's something familiar about the whistleblower on this programme, and it's only partly the woolly hat...
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b080ysnh

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LurkingHusband · 10/11/2016 14:02

Just to add - here's another really nasty trick - and as always, it can be defended from the "other" point of view.

Note the date we received our pack (28th Oct). And it's due by 20th Nov. So a good full 10 days to go.

Yesterday, MrsLH received an almost hysterical text, warning here that her application for PIP had not been received, and going on to threaten stopping DLA etc etc. It was quite distressing (the more so, as MrsLH can't see properly so relies on text-to-speech, which made it sound menacing).

I'm out of charitable excuses now, and call this out as a blatant attempt to bully claimants into returning forms early (and thus incomplete, or lacking the details needed) and lining them up for an easy rejection.

The fact the text made no mention of the cut off date is instructive, as it made the threat that "DLA will be stopped sooner" all the more terrifying.

I wonder how many claimants have been bullied into returning forms before they are ready ?

Of course the DWP retort is that they do all they can to help claimants and this part of their caring programme ....

LovelyBath77 · 10/11/2016 14:18

Ah yes, they do write things very badly. As if you've always done something wrong or are in the wrong, or as if as you say they are vaguely hysterical. I suppose it is just they need to do this a few days before to check it is on the way, but it could be done in a far better / kinder way, particularly considering they are dealing with disabled people.

LovelyBath77 · 10/11/2016 14:19

Could you clarify for me, IwasateenagePIPAssessor, what happens if someone Does Not Attend, is their claim closed and do they have to reapply from scratch, or can they go to appeal on the decision? Many thanks.

LurkingHusband · 10/11/2016 16:50

Not sure what - if anything - this might mean for PIP claimants

www.theregister.co.uk/2016/11/10/six_weeks_after_first_ever_profit_warning_capita_does_what_capita_does/

But one way Capita can increase their profits, is to reduce their expenses. Assuming they are paid a flat rate per case assessed, the less they spend per case, the more profit. Who pays for appeals, I wonder ?

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 10/11/2016 17:29

Hi Lovelybath, I'm afraid that I don't know the answer to that. Sorry.

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