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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to give people assistance with claiming PIP?

437 replies

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 25/10/2016 22:08

No, of course I'm not BU. I'm just posting here for traffic. Name changed, obvs.

Bit of background; I was a PIP Disability Assessor for a while this year, until I decided that I couldn't work within the system with a good conscience, and left. I witnessed DA's who were trying their best, mostly, to help people with their claims. They (and I) were hamstrung both by our immediate employers, and a system (whether by accident or design) that discriminated against claimants with certain conditions. In the spirit of the release of 'I, Daniel Blake', which isn't about PIP but other failures of the benefit system, I've decided to give some general advice to those looking to claim PIP.

Firstly, let's look at initially making the claim. I would say the most vital point is this; PROVIDE EVIDENCE. The way that the claim form/questionnaire is worded implies that the DWP/ATOS/CAPITA or whoever will chase letters from GPS, specialists etc to back up your claim for you. In my experience, this doesn't happen. The onus is on you to provide this information, although it would be very easy to assume the opposite. Some photocopies of a recent prescription, letters detailing diagnoses and appointment dates, and evidence of secondary care involvement (especially people with mental health conditions) provide good evidence; if you haven't provided anything, then the DA has to go mostly on that short assessment with you. You may be horribly unwell or disabled for 5 days a week, if you're having a 'good day' on the assessment however, then your claim is in trouble. Evidence, Evidence, Evidence; I can't stress that enough. Don't let the DWP have the easy option; the decision they make is heavily dependent on the report written by the health professional that assesses you. The decision maker at the DWP has no medical qualifications of any sort.

If you have disabilities that cause you to have problems getting out (especially severe MH conditions), ask for a home assessment. The way the system is, if you have a MH condition involving severe anxiety or depression, or agoraphobia; then you attend a clinic appointment, it can be used as evidence that you aren't as bad as you claim that you are. The reasoning is that you can't be that ill if you can get to a clinic appointment. It's profoundly unfair, and a large part of why I left. Once again; evidence is so important.

Don't assume that the health professional that sees you knows much about your condition. In a working and well-designed system, those with certain conditions would be given appointments with HP's with a specialism in that area. It ain't so. You could get a general or MH nurse, an Occupational Therapist, a Physio or a Paramedic. It's completely random. If you can bring along a health professional of your own, then do. I'd advise anyone against attending by themselves. That's not because I don't trust the DA's; the vast majority are good people. It's just easy to forget things, and people with severe MH problems or learning disabilities/Autism really need an advocate of some sort.

If you're asked to do a set of 12 exercises (it's called the Musculoskeletal exam, or MSK), be sensible! I had people trying to please me by trying to do these despite evident pain; tell the DA why it would be difficult for you to do it. If you cannot do it, just do what you can and explain why. Completing those ridiculous exercises at personal cost, especially pain, will count against you. Don't make stuff up to help your claim (they'll see straight through it, and assume that you're dishonest), but don't put yourself at risk of harm by doing something that you can't. The DA has to take your safety into consideration when assessing what you can and can't do. Once again, evidence is key. If you need aids or adaptations to walk, or need to wear wrist supports etc, then bring/wear them. Help the DA to help you. They normally will.

Talking of assessments, if you report any MH conditions at all, then the DA will be observing you throughout the assessment for a Mental State Examination (MSE). In my opinion, this is even more badly designed that the MSK. A HP, who may or may not have any MH experience at all, will continually assess your mood, behaviour, anxiety etc throughout the assessment. It's completely subjective. If you have a serious MH condition, if you are in pain, if you are distressed or anxious then let it show to the DA. The stiff upper lip is the worst possible approach.

We were told that those 45 minutes were key. If a consultant wrote that you couldn't do something, then you did it in that 45 minute assessment (good day or not) then the weight of evidence would be on the assessment.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that PIP discriminates against those with learning disabilities or MH conditions. Seriously. It's appalling. If you are turned down, then PLEASE appeal. You'd be surprised how many obtain PIP through appeal; it's often through providing further evidence. Don't give the DWP the chance to deny your rightful claim in the first place; provide that evidence when you first fill in the forms.

OP posts:
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IwasateenagePIPassessor · 29/10/2016 00:05

I would stress that you shouldn't decide whether to apply for PIP or not based on my opinion. The guidelines change; as I previously said ^^up there somewhere they've been revised since I left a couple of months ago.
If you've got a medical condition that affects your ability to perform daily tasks, or affects your mobility, it's certainly worth looking into. It doesn't have to be every day either.

OP posts:
Becca19962014 · 29/10/2016 00:05

I'll look into the recording equipment thing. Thankyou.

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 29/10/2016 00:07

I started this thread not to advise people whether it's worth applying or not, it's purpose is really to point out how to maximise your chances of receiving your deserved point allocation.

OP posts:
Becca19962014 · 29/10/2016 00:07

Pressed send too soon, there was a reason why they must provide it, it was to do with cost as it must record two copies simultaneously on CD and that equipment is very expensive to get hold of. I'll have a check anyway.

Becca19962014 · 29/10/2016 00:10

I understand just needed to know if I'll need to telephone anyone at any point as if I do I cannot apply anyway, sorry for additional questions. The thread is very helpful. I hope I've no derailed asking what I have, if so then sorry.

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 29/10/2016 00:11

No, I'm very happy to answer any questions; to the best of my ability anyway.

OP posts:
heavenlypink · 29/10/2016 00:12

OP (hope your still looking) my (adult) DS has a learning disability and has been given an 'on-going' PIP award Is there a time scale for reassessment?

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 29/10/2016 00:15

From what I can remember, the time scale is from 2 years to 5 years, or indefinitely if a condition will not change. It wouldn't be unusual, in my experience, for someone with a diagnosis of a lifelong condition comprising a learning disability to not require another assessment under the current rules. That would only change if there was a secondary condition that could potentially deteriorate or improve.

OP posts:
IwasateenagePIPassessor · 29/10/2016 00:17

The DA sets the recommendation for the review period. For some reason, pressure was applied from above to review those with MH conditions every couple of years.

OP posts:
heavenlypink · 29/10/2016 00:20

Thanks Flowers

That's really useful. He does have epilepsy and a variable genetic disorder - one thing explains another iykwim

MUjunkie · 29/10/2016 04:26

Oh god! My sister has learning sifdiculties and I filled in her forms, got through the medical, she passed...BUT!...her 5 year old son has problems, has a 1-1 teacher, has had twat upon test and assessment upon assessment! He hasn't actually got a diagnosis and I've had the renewal forms for nearly 6 weeks and I am struggling! I have no idea how to answer the questions! I'm usually good at stuff like this, I've been helping my sister for years, but these new forms for my nephew are giving me sleepless fkn nights Sad

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 29/10/2016 10:17

Is your sister claiming for herself?

OP posts:
MUjunkie · 29/10/2016 10:24

Yes she's been taken off dla and awarded pip. It's her sons I'm stressing about now! He already gets dla, (I can't remember off hand whether it's renewal for that, or the pip tbh) It's so hard to fill the forms in without a diagnosis because nobody knows exactly what's going on with him! All we've had is global development delay, he may have autism but it's 1 year waiting list for the assessment

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 29/10/2016 10:42

My understanding is that you have to be 16 to receive PIP though?

OP posts:
ChunkyMcBitch · 29/10/2016 10:50

Thank you so much for this. I've just been through an extremely stressful 9 months waiting for transition from DLA to PIP, I researched and read everything I could and represented my husband myself. Thankfully we got a MH nurse who totally understood the issues we faced, we had a home assessment and ended up awarded more than we had under DLA.

I have a huge gripe at the moment with the group Fightback. They started off helping everyone, provided invaluable advice and asked for a donation if successful. Then suddenly they had a wish list on Amazon (including a coffee machine). Now they offer a three tier system: if you pay nothing, chances are you will not be helped (I emailed/phoned them 3 times and received no contact back whatsoever). Then you can pay £5 a month to access some of their information. Then the top level is £11.99 per month which gives you example forms to fill in for specific illnesses. Now we were never in a position to be able to pay for this kind of service, but I do feel that this could end up being a fraudster's wet dream. I know of someone who is trying to claim for made up illnesses (family member, and yes I have reported them more than once) because they are working while claiming they have that extra monmey to pay for a copy of whichever illness they claim to have this week.

Sorry to go off topic, but I worry that groups like them that set up trying to genuinely help could be doing more harm than good.

NotCitrus · 29/10/2016 11:25

The Benefits and Work site is worth every penny. They explain what is meant by every question, eg "preparing a meal" covers getting, peeling, chopping veg, using a hob, getting hot food safely onto a plate etc. And how to reply, so if you don't have problems burnig yourself because you only use a microwave or have a kettle tipper or get DP to dish up, then you have to write what would happen if you did try all those. Equally I might think I can get myself dressed because I can do so and get kids to school without having to help from DP, but actually I have Velcro or pop-up boots, it takes a long hot shower and then another 10 minutes effort to get a bra on, I can't grip earrings to go in my ears, my trousers are generally full-on with no buttons, I don't wear button-up shirts, I can't hold a hair dryer for more than a few seconds so have to just clip back wet hair, can't do eye makeup as hands too wobbly... that's the level of detail you need for every question. Explaining why you can't just make 'obvious' changes to do something is critical.

I got awarded basic care straight away (after a year of faffing and failure to book terps and losing my paperwork - always send recorded delivery!), though oddly for different criteria than I expected.

For the MSK assessment, try the exercises without exerting yourself at all - refusing some because then you'd be too exhausted to get home would be reasonable. State formally every single time when appropriate, "I could do that maybe once a day, BUT I could not do it repeatedly or reliably when necessary." Anecdotes of when you have been stuck because you couldn't do X even though sometimes you can, also helpful.

I suspect taking DP who introduced himself as Dr Hisname probably helped. He's not a medical doctor but we didnt feel the need to mention that.

Oblomov16 · 29/10/2016 12:14

This thread is seriously depressing.
Are you alive? Do you breathe? You are not dead?
Oh well, no PIP for you then.
I can't imagine Many people getting it. I applied recently for dh. I'm starting to think I shouldn't have bothered. He has 8 different medical conditions. But none of them are THAT awful. But they affect him a lot. But I bet we won't get PIP.

Dawndonnaagain · 29/10/2016 12:47

My forms have arrived. I haven't even opened the envelope. I spent yesterday in hospital (I'm fine) suspected heart attack, but no, it was stress. So this is adding to it.
Aaarghhh!

NotCitrus · 29/10/2016 12:55

Oblamov One good thing about PIP is it does actually take multiple conditions into account reasonably well. If you provide info for each question explaining why he can't do (all the individual aspects of X) SAFELY, REPEATEDLY and RELIABLY, ie what happens if he were to try, then it should be possible to get at least 2 points on relevant ones - I got 12 over 5 different areas thanks to that. I'm certainly less disabled most of the time than people who've been turned down, but I meet at least those criteria.

Biscuitmadness · 29/10/2016 12:56

Gosh I find all this so sad and depressing - it must be so stressful to go for these assessments and have someone determine your outcomes total disempowerment

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 29/10/2016 12:59

Dawn when I did mine, rather than doing it all at once DH and I did a couple of questions at a time. It made it more manageable iyswim.

Flowers for you. It stressed me to. I had a 5 year award and I'm dreading having to go through it again even though my condition has dramatically deteriorated from then.

GrumpyInsomniac · 29/10/2016 13:20

It seems I was very lucky. For one thing, I had DH on my side and he researched everything he could find ahead of the assessment, as well as providing a statement that went with the application, as my carer, because I have both mental and physical issues and a tendency to stuff upper lip.

He purchased the recording equipment for the ATOS assessment on eBay for £50, and insisted they put the assessment closer to home - they wanted to send us 40 miles to Watford, and even them paying for a taxi there and back would have been too painful.

On the day of the assessment, my impression was of someone decent, but overwhelmed by the needs of the report. At one point, we'd just discussed something and she said 'so I'm writing this' and her attempt to put what had been discussed into report language completely changed the sense, so we corrected her and got the wording right.

My assessor was clear for the physical stuff that I shouldn't do anything that would cause me pain, but I'm a people pleaser and gave it my best shot, even though that meant giving up in tears for some of them, and utterly failing to do others.

I'd been expecting a battle, followed by an appeal. Instead I got enhanced rate everything on the first time of trying, but I can clearly see where and hiw this could have gone awry if I hadn't had DH to be with me every step of the process. I strongly suspect the recording to have been the clincher, though, and that is very hard for most people to manage, not to mention expensive to get the approved kit.

tallwivglasses · 29/10/2016 13:24

OP I saw your first post on a private Facebook page before reading this thread. Your message is spreading! Thanks so much for taking the time x

Mishaps · 29/10/2016 13:24

Poeple with head injuries and the subtle cognitive changes that go with it also slip through the benefits net.

I admire you for getting out of a system that your conscience told you was fatally flawed and dishonest. I left social work after 30 years for similar reasons and was deeply sad that my ability to help people with disabilities had been taken away from me - I was in the end just a financial gatekeeper, when in law my role should have been just the opposite.

MUjunkie · 29/10/2016 13:41

Well it must just be DLA renewal forms then. They are still a pain in the arse tho lol