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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to give people assistance with claiming PIP?

437 replies

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 25/10/2016 22:08

No, of course I'm not BU. I'm just posting here for traffic. Name changed, obvs.

Bit of background; I was a PIP Disability Assessor for a while this year, until I decided that I couldn't work within the system with a good conscience, and left. I witnessed DA's who were trying their best, mostly, to help people with their claims. They (and I) were hamstrung both by our immediate employers, and a system (whether by accident or design) that discriminated against claimants with certain conditions. In the spirit of the release of 'I, Daniel Blake', which isn't about PIP but other failures of the benefit system, I've decided to give some general advice to those looking to claim PIP.

Firstly, let's look at initially making the claim. I would say the most vital point is this; PROVIDE EVIDENCE. The way that the claim form/questionnaire is worded implies that the DWP/ATOS/CAPITA or whoever will chase letters from GPS, specialists etc to back up your claim for you. In my experience, this doesn't happen. The onus is on you to provide this information, although it would be very easy to assume the opposite. Some photocopies of a recent prescription, letters detailing diagnoses and appointment dates, and evidence of secondary care involvement (especially people with mental health conditions) provide good evidence; if you haven't provided anything, then the DA has to go mostly on that short assessment with you. You may be horribly unwell or disabled for 5 days a week, if you're having a 'good day' on the assessment however, then your claim is in trouble. Evidence, Evidence, Evidence; I can't stress that enough. Don't let the DWP have the easy option; the decision they make is heavily dependent on the report written by the health professional that assesses you. The decision maker at the DWP has no medical qualifications of any sort.

If you have disabilities that cause you to have problems getting out (especially severe MH conditions), ask for a home assessment. The way the system is, if you have a MH condition involving severe anxiety or depression, or agoraphobia; then you attend a clinic appointment, it can be used as evidence that you aren't as bad as you claim that you are. The reasoning is that you can't be that ill if you can get to a clinic appointment. It's profoundly unfair, and a large part of why I left. Once again; evidence is so important.

Don't assume that the health professional that sees you knows much about your condition. In a working and well-designed system, those with certain conditions would be given appointments with HP's with a specialism in that area. It ain't so. You could get a general or MH nurse, an Occupational Therapist, a Physio or a Paramedic. It's completely random. If you can bring along a health professional of your own, then do. I'd advise anyone against attending by themselves. That's not because I don't trust the DA's; the vast majority are good people. It's just easy to forget things, and people with severe MH problems or learning disabilities/Autism really need an advocate of some sort.

If you're asked to do a set of 12 exercises (it's called the Musculoskeletal exam, or MSK), be sensible! I had people trying to please me by trying to do these despite evident pain; tell the DA why it would be difficult for you to do it. If you cannot do it, just do what you can and explain why. Completing those ridiculous exercises at personal cost, especially pain, will count against you. Don't make stuff up to help your claim (they'll see straight through it, and assume that you're dishonest), but don't put yourself at risk of harm by doing something that you can't. The DA has to take your safety into consideration when assessing what you can and can't do. Once again, evidence is key. If you need aids or adaptations to walk, or need to wear wrist supports etc, then bring/wear them. Help the DA to help you. They normally will.

Talking of assessments, if you report any MH conditions at all, then the DA will be observing you throughout the assessment for a Mental State Examination (MSE). In my opinion, this is even more badly designed that the MSK. A HP, who may or may not have any MH experience at all, will continually assess your mood, behaviour, anxiety etc throughout the assessment. It's completely subjective. If you have a serious MH condition, if you are in pain, if you are distressed or anxious then let it show to the DA. The stiff upper lip is the worst possible approach.

We were told that those 45 minutes were key. If a consultant wrote that you couldn't do something, then you did it in that 45 minute assessment (good day or not) then the weight of evidence would be on the assessment.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that PIP discriminates against those with learning disabilities or MH conditions. Seriously. It's appalling. If you are turned down, then PLEASE appeal. You'd be surprised how many obtain PIP through appeal; it's often through providing further evidence. Don't give the DWP the chance to deny your rightful claim in the first place; provide that evidence when you first fill in the forms.

OP posts:
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BannedexPIPassessor · 16/11/2016 19:40

Thanks, alice, but I think that would just get the post deleted faster!

BannedexPIPassessor · 16/11/2016 19:48

While I'm still here, namechange; he's got a very good case, don't forget the written evidence, including prescriptions. Cases are reviewed if there is likely to be a deterioration as well as an improvement; he's got every chance, don't think that the review is designed to stop his award.

BannedexPIPassessor · 16/11/2016 19:49

Reviews for conditions that are progressive are really designed to increase the PIP award if necessary; despite everything I've said over the thread, sometimes the system isn't totally rotten. It's just a shame he has to go through it.
Best of luck tomorrow.

BannedexPIPassessor · 16/11/2016 19:57

They have done this a few times recently. Hopefully you can get it sorted. Email HQ until they get back to you.

There's only so many times I can do this without feeling a bit weird and needy!
They're a other forums on the internet. Shame though, can be fun here.

Namechangeemergency · 16/11/2016 19:59

Oh thanks for that sweetheart.
I appreciate it.

I had an ATOS when I was on sick after my DD died. I sobbed all the way through as they asked me if I could raise my arm and sit at a desk.
I got no points and they stopped my IB two weeks before informing me.

Looking back I can see how seriously ill I was and I got a dx of complex PTSD a few years later. At the time I just took it as proof that I was weak and useless.

Tomorrow is pushing all those buttons.

Namechangeemergency · 16/11/2016 20:01

banned its happened to some of my mn friends.
Without warning.
No emails etc.
For silly infractions.

They got back on after a bit. Its so bloody infuriating when you have posters who are good at being nasty without stepping over the official line. Honest posters get banned.

Namechangeemergency · 16/11/2016 20:02

Didn't think about prescriptions!
He doesn't have loads of evidence because people with MS don't see many people. We have a letter from the MS nurse and that tallies with the stuff I put on his form.

Fingers crossed.

BannedexPIPassessor · 16/11/2016 20:03

I can imagine that it might be triggering. It's good that there's two of you going though; it allows a better picture to be given to the DA.
As I've said, the majority of DAs that I met wanted to do the best they could for the claimant. Hopefully it'll be fine.

BannedexPIPassessor · 16/11/2016 20:04

It's all evidence; a recent prescription is very useful. Failing that, take the meds with you.

JoffreyBaratheon · 16/11/2016 20:09

My husband was turned down at appeal a couple of weeks ago. He needed more evidence. He didn't get it as he thought DWP had (he had given permission for them to contact his GP, audiologist, etc). Also, the system discriminates against the hearing impaired as its narrow criteria don't even cover many of the problems the hearing impaired have. Years ago I used to work for a charity and helped many people fill in DLA forms and successfully get DLA. This is a whole new ballgame.

My son has two different disabilities and managed to get Enhanced on both sides at first try. But he now only has it for 5 years (because the DWP have a secret cure for autism?)

One other thing. Don't believe the BS about appeals being fairly unscary.

Our's was in the local court. As if we were criminals.

In that very confined space of the waiting area, a criminal in hand-cuffs was dragged past us, just a foot away.

It is degrading and repulsive. I thought then - if my son had had to go to appeal - he'd never have coped with that. He'd have been terrified. Press, if you're reading this - this is the reality.

BTW my son got enhanced because, we were told, of the extra evidence his GP provided. Want to know how complex and detailed that was? A sentence with 5 words in it - his diagnosis. So although my husband failed on lack of evidence (despite a CAPITA report detailing his extra hearing aids he gets for work), son gained it on having 'good' evidence - one short sentence. It is all lies and bullshit.

Let's expose the tories for the shits they are treating the disabled like criminals. And even when they give awards giving someone who got LIFETIME DLA for a lifelong condition - a finite award. (We daren't appeal in case we lost even the award my son had). So unless we do something to expose this - 4 years from now - my son goes through it all again.

JoffreyBaratheon · 16/11/2016 20:11

BTW, we took the meds to appeals with us - so taking them does nothing. And a table full of my husband's various hearing aids, etc. Apparently, there was not enough evidence of how it affected him - and yet we filled out the forms very cogently and as I say I had many experience of filling out forms under the old system - we never lost a single appeal (or initial claim) we made, with my form filling, for other people, over a period of years. So by all means take everything you have if you get an appeal. It will still mean shit all. And if you have to take a vulnerable younger person - yes, they really do sit you in the waiting room with the criminals.

BannedexPIPassessor · 16/11/2016 20:15

It's inherently unfair; it's not terribly difficult to get PIP for a disability like osteoarthritis, as long as you know how to tackle the assessments.
It's the invisible conditions, as I described earlier in the thread, that have the real difficulty getting the awards that they deserve.

JoffreyBaratheon · 16/11/2016 20:17

Also I'm still intrigued as to how the DWP have not shared with us their cure for autism. That 'review' can't possibly be in order to increase his award as he already gets enhanced. Yet, from age 2 or 3 he got DLA for life. I think someone, somewhere has broken a contract with my son and disabled people like him who were promised support for life. Unless, as I say, the DWP have a cure they have yet to share with us?

The reason for review in 5 years? He might go to university. Derp. We just wrote all over the forms that he is already there and these are his needs when he's both at uni and at home. Basically - they didn't even READ the forms! But as I say, I didn't appeal as the chances were they'd take it all away from him.

Smartleatherbag · 16/11/2016 20:23

Sorry you're being banned, op. Your info has been very helpful and is much appreciated. Flowers

AliceInUnderpants · 16/11/2016 20:28

Banned whilst you're still here, and I'm still gearing up to a PIP application (by the way, I've been advised ESA is easier to claim and I may want to do that first, does having a current ESA claim help at all with a PIP claim?), I just wondered if you have any statistics or knowledge of how many claims are allowed without an assessment, and which type of conditions those would be most likely to include?

JellyBelli · 16/11/2016 20:37

AliceInUnderpants I claim ESA and it doesnt help with PIP. I need a carer for 16+ hours a week and dont qualify I only need a carer for 3 out of the 4 physical tasks and get 6 points. You need 8.
A lot of things are no longer covered. For example, I need help with shopping, but this Govt says I can do my shopping online and get it delivered.
I need help with housework but that doesnt count either. Its not personal care.

DLA used to give me help for the expenses involved with my disability, such as the aids I need.

BannedexPIPassessor · 16/11/2016 20:41

ESA and PIP are quite distinct, whether someone was receiving ESA wasn't taken into consideration when assessing for PIP.
You can receive PIP whether you're working or not, of course.
As for how many claims are accepted without an assessment, I don't have those figures. All I can can think of is 'not many'.

BannedexPIPassessor · 16/11/2016 20:42

The Night Watch are slow in getting to me tonight, obviously 🙃

xcinema · 16/11/2016 20:44

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SingaSong12 · 16/11/2016 21:07

OP Thank you for this - I sometimes help people with the forms and there are some new bits I'll add to what I tell them.

BannedexPIPassessor · 16/11/2016 22:05

You're welcome.

NoSuchThingAsThePerfectParent · 16/11/2016 22:23

How long is your ban, Op? You're such a valued resource I think you should be let off the hook!

BannedexPIPassessor · 16/11/2016 22:25

I don't know; I've had no communication from MNHQ at all, and they're ignoring my messages.
I'm more than a bit annoyed, I thought they'd be more professional than this.

EveryDayIsASchoolDay · 16/11/2016 23:46

@Banned
If you don't have to have a f2f appointment is that a good sign?

NoSuchThingAsThePerfectParent · 17/11/2016 00:19

Banned from a different thread all about bans, MN don't email you, they wait for you to email them to ask why, or to find out how long the ban is for. Even then, people report it takes several days to get a response. Probably part of the punishment? I dunno. I can imagine it's a horrible feeling though. I got kicked off once for sock-puppeting but when I gave my reason (had name-changed when I didn't want to out myself after a new thread was a bit too personal, and had forgotten to change back for a final post. It wasn't even controversial). Anyway, they let me back in straight away. I was horrified and still live in fear of sock-puppet even now!

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