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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to give people assistance with claiming PIP?

437 replies

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 25/10/2016 22:08

No, of course I'm not BU. I'm just posting here for traffic. Name changed, obvs.

Bit of background; I was a PIP Disability Assessor for a while this year, until I decided that I couldn't work within the system with a good conscience, and left. I witnessed DA's who were trying their best, mostly, to help people with their claims. They (and I) were hamstrung both by our immediate employers, and a system (whether by accident or design) that discriminated against claimants with certain conditions. In the spirit of the release of 'I, Daniel Blake', which isn't about PIP but other failures of the benefit system, I've decided to give some general advice to those looking to claim PIP.

Firstly, let's look at initially making the claim. I would say the most vital point is this; PROVIDE EVIDENCE. The way that the claim form/questionnaire is worded implies that the DWP/ATOS/CAPITA or whoever will chase letters from GPS, specialists etc to back up your claim for you. In my experience, this doesn't happen. The onus is on you to provide this information, although it would be very easy to assume the opposite. Some photocopies of a recent prescription, letters detailing diagnoses and appointment dates, and evidence of secondary care involvement (especially people with mental health conditions) provide good evidence; if you haven't provided anything, then the DA has to go mostly on that short assessment with you. You may be horribly unwell or disabled for 5 days a week, if you're having a 'good day' on the assessment however, then your claim is in trouble. Evidence, Evidence, Evidence; I can't stress that enough. Don't let the DWP have the easy option; the decision they make is heavily dependent on the report written by the health professional that assesses you. The decision maker at the DWP has no medical qualifications of any sort.

If you have disabilities that cause you to have problems getting out (especially severe MH conditions), ask for a home assessment. The way the system is, if you have a MH condition involving severe anxiety or depression, or agoraphobia; then you attend a clinic appointment, it can be used as evidence that you aren't as bad as you claim that you are. The reasoning is that you can't be that ill if you can get to a clinic appointment. It's profoundly unfair, and a large part of why I left. Once again; evidence is so important.

Don't assume that the health professional that sees you knows much about your condition. In a working and well-designed system, those with certain conditions would be given appointments with HP's with a specialism in that area. It ain't so. You could get a general or MH nurse, an Occupational Therapist, a Physio or a Paramedic. It's completely random. If you can bring along a health professional of your own, then do. I'd advise anyone against attending by themselves. That's not because I don't trust the DA's; the vast majority are good people. It's just easy to forget things, and people with severe MH problems or learning disabilities/Autism really need an advocate of some sort.

If you're asked to do a set of 12 exercises (it's called the Musculoskeletal exam, or MSK), be sensible! I had people trying to please me by trying to do these despite evident pain; tell the DA why it would be difficult for you to do it. If you cannot do it, just do what you can and explain why. Completing those ridiculous exercises at personal cost, especially pain, will count against you. Don't make stuff up to help your claim (they'll see straight through it, and assume that you're dishonest), but don't put yourself at risk of harm by doing something that you can't. The DA has to take your safety into consideration when assessing what you can and can't do. Once again, evidence is key. If you need aids or adaptations to walk, or need to wear wrist supports etc, then bring/wear them. Help the DA to help you. They normally will.

Talking of assessments, if you report any MH conditions at all, then the DA will be observing you throughout the assessment for a Mental State Examination (MSE). In my opinion, this is even more badly designed that the MSK. A HP, who may or may not have any MH experience at all, will continually assess your mood, behaviour, anxiety etc throughout the assessment. It's completely subjective. If you have a serious MH condition, if you are in pain, if you are distressed or anxious then let it show to the DA. The stiff upper lip is the worst possible approach.

We were told that those 45 minutes were key. If a consultant wrote that you couldn't do something, then you did it in that 45 minute assessment (good day or not) then the weight of evidence would be on the assessment.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that PIP discriminates against those with learning disabilities or MH conditions. Seriously. It's appalling. If you are turned down, then PLEASE appeal. You'd be surprised how many obtain PIP through appeal; it's often through providing further evidence. Don't give the DWP the chance to deny your rightful claim in the first place; provide that evidence when you first fill in the forms.

OP posts:
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IwasateenagePIPassessor · 10/11/2016 17:34

primitivemom, I think that you'll have a good case. I think you should certainly request a home visit, say that it causes you great stress to leave the house. You're more likely to get one with Capita than Atos, though. I'd advise you to get back in touch with your CMHT though, and if possible get some recent documentation that says that you are under their care. I can't stress enough how useful that would be to you.
During a home visit, a DA would come out and talk to you for approx 45 minutes.

OP posts:
IwasateenagePIPassessor · 10/11/2016 17:37

PIPquestionPIP, if it's any reassurance, it's how the condition affects you rather than which condition it actually is (if you see what I mean). Gather evidence of diagnoses, appointments, recent prescription etc, and send them in or take them to the appointment.

OP posts:
Smartleatherbag · 10/11/2016 20:05

Placemarking, great information, thanks OP Flowers

chickenwing · 10/11/2016 20:14

God this scares me Sad I've been advised to apply for pip due to MH and just the thought of these people grilling me, watching my every move makes me feel sick!!

LovelyBath77 · 10/11/2016 21:08

Here the CMHT seem to discharge as soon as meds are stable then hand over to the GP. there is then a follow on where you are able to access CPNs. PIP / Atos seemed to accept this when assessed last time as mentioned was still in the care of the CMHT. I think it might be as my discharge letter mentioned that the GP would refer on to this and did not need a referral back etc does that sound right?

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 10/11/2016 21:14

Lovely, as long as you've got that written evidence and explain it at the assessment, I'm sure it'll be fine.

OP posts:
LovelyBath77 · 10/11/2016 21:16

Primitive mum if they've seen you before can you ring the CMHT and self-refer? Or see a different GP perhaps. Good luck x

Bearsinmotion · 10/11/2016 21:17

I've been on DLA for 20 years, just got my letter about PIP assessment. I know how lucky I am that we both work and could get by without the money, but if my blue badge is taken away I don't know what I'll do Sad I won't be able to take the kids out without DP, will lose my parking space and work and can't walk from the main car park to my office Sad

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 10/11/2016 21:20

i do recommend watching that programme I linked to above ^
It's all about PIP, and there's some good info in it.

OP posts:
IwasateenagePIPassessor · 10/11/2016 21:21

Here it is again;

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b080ysnh

OP posts:
LovelyBath77 · 10/11/2016 21:25

Thanks. I noticed in the last PIP assessment the assessor said it was chronic and gave a three year award, so at least it's OK for a while. It is something to be aware of and good advice.

LovelyBath77 · 10/11/2016 21:27

Bearsinmotion, have a look at descriptors for PIP mobility and see where you might qualify? It might set your minds at rest.

GothyGeisha · 10/11/2016 21:41

Thank you so much for this. I had to fight for over a year to get my daughter her money after her first claim ran out. She has development delay and learning disabilities, anxiety and agoraphobia. The assessor said because she was clean, well dressed and knew how to text her Dad, and managed to get to the assessment, she didn't need PIP. I feel that ATOS are just trying to get as many people off PIP as possible, despite there disabilities, I'm sure they get a bonus for each one turned down.

Bearsinmotion · 10/11/2016 21:45

Thanks Lovely, looks like I should qualify for at least the standard rate, which I think means I can get a badge but will lose the Motability car. Could be worse.

My condition is neurological but DP has an MH condition. We've often discussed how actually his condition affects our finances a lot more than mine, yet he has never claimed benefits and wouldn't qualify under PIP, despite the fact that he just couldn't live by himself (hoarding, can't wash up as everything has to be so thorough washed it takes hours). He has daily panic attacks and would struggle to leave the house by himself, but even if we split up he'd still get nothing. Sad

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 10/11/2016 21:47

Bears, look at PIP for him. If he needs promoting to complete tasks in a timely manner, he might qualify. If he needs assistance or someone with him to leave the house due to his MH, he might also qualify

OP posts:
Bearsinmotion · 10/11/2016 22:09

Thanks Iwas. I have looked at the criteria from his point of view, but I just don't see how he'd qualify. He can technically do everything, just not in a timeframe that is workable. He can easily cook dinner, but washing up takes hours, literally. Same for hoovering, cleaning bathrooms etc. Prompting doesn't help.

He takes DD to school, and just about manages to ride out the panic attacks because he knows she is relying on him. If we weren't here I think he'd just hide under the duvet all day.

At the moment he is unable to eat in the morning as the panic makes him feel sick, so he's losing a lot of weight. Sad. So despite being disabled myself, I am the primary care giver, cook, cleaner, counsellor and look after the finances. But I just don't see that he meets any PIP criteria Confused

Thanks for all the advice Thanks

primitivemom · 10/11/2016 22:50

Thankyou iwas and lovely i.m really worrying i won't get my award renewed. It causes a lot of stress, iwas in you opinion, how likey do you think i'd be to get it renewed? x

primitivemom · 10/11/2016 22:51

likely even x

PIPquestionPIP · 10/11/2016 23:08

Thank you iwas :)

Strange turn of events today and it turns out I likely have the original condition too. So now I'm worrying that my original award based on condition A will be cancelled when a case manager gets to it and sees my note about having condition B instead and I'll have to reapply again for that and go through the whole process again when I wouldn't have needed to. Kicking myself for being a goody two shoes and phoning them to make changes the day I got my diagnosis letter.

ConvincingLiar · 10/11/2016 23:19

^Today 14:19 LovelyBath77

Could you clarify for me, IwasateenagePIPAssessor, what happens if someone Does Not Attend, is their claim closed and do they have to reapply from scratch, or can they go to appeal on the decision? Many thanks.^

If you fail to attend an assessment without good cause they can close your claim but it is an appealable decision.

IwasateenagePIPassessor · 11/11/2016 08:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Namechangeemergency · 16/11/2016 19:14

Its OH's DLA to PIP assessment tomorrow.
I am really anxious. We have so much riding on this.
He currently manages to work part time in the evenings.
I do everything else so he can work. E.g house, kids, everything.

He has MS. He uses a scooter to get around. He falls frequently.
He gets confused and hardly goes out. He goes to work and thats it.

He currently gets high rate mobility and mid rate care.

He was given an indefinite award but now, because of the switch over, this is no longer indefinite is it?

OH is proud and he also finds it tricky to follow conversations.
I am worried he will nod and smile and just do as he is told.
I have had to take the day off to go with him.

He never goes anywhere new on his own anymore. They refused us a home visit. They said he had to be housebound to qualify.

I really don't want to have to do this.

BannedexPIPassessor · 16/11/2016 19:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AliceInUnderpants · 16/11/2016 19:38

Oh Banned that's really, really shit. Your advice has been invaluable. I hope this thread will remain.
Would you like me to report your latest post in the hope that MNHQ will make contact with you?

Namechangeemergency · 16/11/2016 19:39
Sad

I am sorry for you OP.
Selfishly I can't help but see this as a bad omen.

They have done this a few times recently. Hopefully you can get it sorted. Email HQ until they get back to you.