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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To continue to wonder who is happy with where Brexit is heading

999 replies

Bearbehind · 25/10/2016 15:44

Whilst I'm sure Leavers will undoubtedly think AIBU the last thread filled up so here's another 1000 opportunities to discuss what you think about where Brexit is heading.

OP posts:
twofingerstoGideon · 26/10/2016 10:53

So why are they pursuing this gross act of economic self harm that will drag us all into the abyss?

In a nutshell? Fuck knows.

user1471448556 · 26/10/2016 11:03

And another thing - one of my friends voted leave. When I expressed my fears and concerns she told me not to worry about it and that 'they'll sort it all out - it'll be fine.' I didn't pursue the topic, but i did think 'it'll be fine - based on what?' And if 'they' is May, Johnson, Fox and Davis then I have zero confidence in them 'sorting it out' and I shall continue to worry!

TheElementsSong · 26/10/2016 11:31

there will be an 84bn black hole in U.K. public finances over the next few years

I believe this is the cue to mention Project Fear, then declare that, whilst nobody can see the future (a specific caveat which only applies to a poor prognosis, you understand), nevertheless everything will be awesome in the long run (because when forecasting a nonspecifically excellent outcome, suddenly it becomes possible to see the future).

Therefore - out of the £X billion black hole in our finances, we shall be funding a bonanza for the NHS (oh, except that was merely an example, in fact there will be no extra money for the NHS and nobody who voted Leave minds in the slightest because they never believed the bus) and, as larry has assured us, world-beating scientific research too.

LurkingHusband · 26/10/2016 11:38

Brexit is starting to look like trying to perform a heart transplant without having first plugged the patient into a heart-lung machine.

You are unplumbing the financial infrastructure of the UK, with the resultant arterial pumping, and desperately trying to sew in the arteries and veins while it's still losing blood, beat after beat.

If you can imagine the blood is money, that's what's happening. And if the patient lives, they'll have a lot less blood.

smallfox2002 · 26/10/2016 11:41

Thanks for continuing the thread BB!

It seems even Theresa agreed with the economic arguments of remaining too.

Everything else is just for political expediency.

autumnintheair · 26/10/2016 11:52

I agree. However, the 48% have been totally sidelined since the referendum. There has been no attempt to engage them in a positive way and no attempt to heal the divisions in society caused by this disastrous referendum

^^ But this is how the 52 % have been sidelined for decades!
I think in comparison Remoaners have done well, I mean being called a Remoaner is the worst abuse your getting. Leavers have been chastised and called every name and label there is - and many epithets have been down right offensive. We have had to sit back and be ignored whilst our Leaders have bamboozled us all and led into a closer union without a Democratic decision /vote to do so.

I still struggle to understand what part of the EU is attractive to Remainers? Apart from those with direct personal issues affected by it.
I would also point out on these threads many Brexiteers i know wont come on them, they are tired of making a point then having loads of posters dive in with " explain yourself" in aggressive ways.

appalachianwalzing · 26/10/2016 11:57

I feel like all I've been doing since the vote is saying I told you so though. Largely because I can't think of anything else to do/say- wasn't trying to suggest people on this thread we're wasting their time, more trying to see what kind of positive things can be done, outside of just trying to change the decision because I increasingly don't think it will happen, or at least not for years. There may be another vote after the terms are negotiated, but a lot of policy changes will have been snuck in under the radar before then. Like you, I've spent years in a union, in political parties - but a) I don't imagine that will be the case for everyone unhappy with this decision and b) id like ideas for other ways that remainers can influence what post-Brexit Britain will look like.

Ireland cut corporation tax in a bad financial situation so I think the black hole makes it more likely it will happen, not less. Outside the EU, here will be less regulation and v little to stop the UK selling itself internationally as a low-wage tax haven. That's the kind of thing that could take hold quite subtly, that many tories have wanted for years anyway- 'oh the EU have been so terrible in negotiations we have no choice but to stick it to them by lowering minimum wage/slashing corporation tax/ increased bonuses for high earners so we can stay competitive. Oh we'll just have to privatise this small part of the NHS, it's all to deal with the EU immigrants we had to keep so they wouldn't send the British pensioners in Spain back, but don't worry, once you're a taxpayer you won't know the difference'

LurkingHusband · 26/10/2016 11:58

But this is how the 52 % have been sidelined for decades!

Some of the racist views espoused by some of the 52% deserve to be sidelined. Nowhere on Earth should it acceptable - majority or not - to abuse people of differing races, cultures, colours and creeds.

"No blacks, no Irish, no dogs" - still withing living memory Shock

StrawberryShortcake32 · 26/10/2016 12:00

It's still too early to tell as nothings really been done yet. All that can be discussed really is speculation. I'm happy waiting in the wings to see what will happen rather than argue with people as to what I guess is going to happen. I think people need to chill out about it at least until there are some definite outcomes. At the risk of being extremely unpopular I did vote leave myself. Happy with my desicion and would make the same one again. Reasons being simply that we signed up for the common market, that's not where we are now and I didn't feel comfortable having politicians in another country able to make desicion on my behalf whom I have no ability to elect or vote for myself. To me that is not democracy. There were many reasons I voted leave and I respect anybodys desicion who voted remain also. That's the wonderful thing about a democracy :)

ARightOldCarryOn · 26/10/2016 12:08

But that's the point Strawberry - there are already definite outcomes and I would welcome your opinion on them. My dh has already seen funding slashed in his science based industry. Universities are losing valuable teachers and research funding and, possibly the most upsetting for me is seeing my parents in law, who live in Northern Ireland, catapulted back to the pre Good Friday fear and uncertainty. Chilling just don't cut it for people who really are paying the price. But hey ho..........

LurkingHusband · 26/10/2016 12:10

I didn't feel comfortable having politicians in another country able to make desicion on my behalf whom I have no ability to elect or vote for myself.

What examples prompted this view ?

LurkingHusband · 26/10/2016 12:13

most upsetting for me is seeing my parents in law, who live in Northern Ireland, catapulted back to the pre Good Friday fear and uncertainty.

Ironically - given it's terrible sectarian history (which makes Brexit/Remoaner seem like a pillow fight) is there a hope that the people of Ireland can show maturity and lead by example ?

smallfox2002 · 26/10/2016 12:25

" didn't feel comfortable having politicians in another country able to make desicion on my behalf whom I have no ability to elect or vote for myself."

Will still happen, you just won't have any say in it, at all. Even less democratic.

LurkingHusband · 26/10/2016 12:30

And given that I have spectacularly managed to never vote for a winning candidate in my life, having the ability to vote is somewhat overrated if the voting system ignores any vote not for the winner.

In fact over the past 30 years I have felt more ignored by Westminster than Brussels.

When haranguing my DS to vote, he just asked "and what has your voting done ?". Fair question.

ARightOldCarryOn · 26/10/2016 12:32

Lurking - that would be great, wouldn't it, and let's hope so. In the meantime I will be sure to remind my 80 something in-laws that they just need to chill and bide their time and it will all be ok. Smiley face anyone?

GetOutMyCar · 26/10/2016 12:35

I think in comparison Remoaners have done well, I mean being called a Remoaner is the worst abuse your getting

More brexiteer delusion. Since the referendum I've been repeatedly called a traitor, told I should be in jail so I can reflect, told I'm not welcome in the UK, told the consequences for me and my own children are my own fault as I abandoned my country, told it's a disgrace that I'm even allowed to vote, and have been cut off from my leave voting family.

You don't have a fucking clue.

smallfox2002 · 26/10/2016 12:37

I love the politicians in other countries making decisions you didn't vote for narrative.

Just whom exactly do you think will decide our future membership of the WTO? Just whom do you think will decide the terms of brexit?

Can you actually give an example where the UK has been negatively effected by an EU decision or had legislation forced on it?

Bearbehind · 26/10/2016 13:00

I would also point out on these threads many Brexiteers i know wont come on them, they are tired of making a point then having loads of posters dive in with " explain yourself" in aggressive ways.

autumn I have rarely seen anyone being aggressive when asking for answers, saying that is just a classic tact of Leaver to avoid giving any.

If anyone gave us examples of tangible benefits of leaving, that crucially outweigh the negative affects, we Remainers would be all ears.

The sad reality is all we ever get are woeful attempts like brexits which only confirm the suspicion that many Leave voters do not have a clue what the repercussions of their vote are.

OP posts:
RortyCrankle · 26/10/2016 13:02

I voted Leave and am still happy, delighted, overjoyed, over the moon, pleased as punch, thrilled and ecstatic Grin

smallfox2002 · 26/10/2016 13:08

Yeah but you can't explain why.

TheElementsSong · 26/10/2016 13:21

Yeah but you can't explain why.

Grin
Brexit · 26/10/2016 13:23

Sorry I haven't been back, but I have stuff to do in real life.

Nor do I have the time to find links for you on demand.

Do carry on though, I enjoy dipping in.

WrongTrouser · 26/10/2016 13:28

I am very interested in appalachian 's previous post about trying to "make a plan to resist some of what's coming" and "thinking of how to circumvent the wider changes that some of the powerful people who supported Brexit want to bring in."

Essentially: reductions in working conditions, increased privatisation of public services, a more divided and unequal society, a growing disdain for experts. Manipulating people through demonising and othering the weak in society- it's been happening for years, but it feels like it's now that these seeds of division are being harvested with a goal of actually reshaping society, in a way most of us would be v afraid of.

I know this was posted from a remainer point of view but the problem is that as long as people continue to see remainers/leavers in a simplistic way as if how you voted in the referendum defines everything about your politics and opinions, it is going to be very hard to stand up against what I suppose is essentially the far-right of the Tory party, as there is such a huge division between people who have many interests at heart.

To start I think more people need to join and influence trade unions. I think there needs to be more engagement with political parties: in not sure what can be done with labour but as with all things, you have to be inside to have an influence, so at this point joining the party you agree with the most and starting to get involved seems like a start. There is a lot that should be done to make people who feel unwelcome know that they aren't. In our case, the shift has been immensely personal and upsetting. The difference between feeling you're a contributing part of society to realising most people see you as an outsider, to be tolerated while you continue to add value. Obviously the majority aren't racist, but a lot more people clearly view EU migrants as less than than many of us realised

Yes, joining a union or political party is a good move. But the referendum hasn't just uncovered intolerance of immigrants. A level of intolerance, and unwillingness to accept that people may have a different view but still be good people, and a denigration of people due to their age, education, wealth etc has become acceptable in a way which is just horrifying. It's not an environment in which people are likely to feel comfortable joining, say, the labour party or generally engaging politically if they haven't in the past.

Perhaps remainers think they want nothing to do politically with anyone who voted leave. If that's the answer then I suppose this demonstrates what I am trying to say and if that is really the case then there really is no hope. People need to move past a simplistic view and try to understand other people's reasons for their vote (even if they don't agree or think these are correct) or the division in society caused by the referendum will be exploited (as appalachian says).

ARightOldCarryOn · 26/10/2016 13:29

Oh Brexit - was prepared to hear you say something intelligent, even though i might disagree, but that was just twattish and patronising.

Brexit · 26/10/2016 13:32