to start charging my sister rent?

[cerealnamechangers]

My dsis has lived in my mortgage free house for seven years with her adult daughter since we moved to a bigger property, in that time i have never asked for a penny in rent as we were pretty comfortable but she has paid all the bills for the house e.g. council tax. I was intending to keep the house incase any of my dc ever wanted to move in. The market rate for rent would be about 650-700 pounds per calendar month.
However we now have 2 dc at university and money is tight so we could really do with the extra cash to help them out. Dsis is not short of money and her and her daughter drive nice cars and go on multiple long haul foreign holidays, so aibu to ask her for a contribution for living there? I feel awkward asking her as she has never offered.

I mean, nobody thinks she lives there too. It's in the first bloody sentence... shes lived in my house since we moved to a bigger property.

Well that's exactly what a lot of posters and myself did think on first reading. I misunderstood 'shes lived in my house since we moved to a bigger property' to mean 'when we sold our smaller property and bought a bigger property my sister came to live with me in the new bigger house'. On rereading, I realise the OPs meaning, but given that lots of people made the mistake it's a bit goady to assert that 'nobody' could be misunderstanding.

I suspect it's because the idea of being able to buy a bigger house without selling the old one is so beyond most of our financial realities didn't occur to us!

As far as what rate of rent to charge, it depends on how you feel about having your sister in the house. If having your sister there if an advantage you (does she keep the place well, does she pay for repairs? etc) then charge less than market rate incetivise her to stay. If you'd be equally happy with a random stranger (who might trash the place, and who would expect you as landlord to keep up maintenance, pay for things that need replacing etc), then charge market rent, and don't be surprised if she moves house. If you are pissed off with her and want her out, charge more than market rent....

Personally I'd much rather have someone I know in a house I was keeping for my kids one day than rent it to a succession of strangers.

I get that people are annoyed on your behalf about the rent your sister hasn't been paying, but you can't really wait seven years then chase the money up(!), so what's happened historically has to stand really.

She hasn't been living rent free, if she's been paying all the bills for the house. Do you want her to pay all bills still but pay you 650-700 rent as well?
She has been living RENT free.

Most people have to pay RENT and then the BILLS on top of that.

*She hasn't been living rent free, if she's been paying all the bills for the house.

Do you want her to pay all bills still but pay you 650-700 rent as well?*

Aren't all tenants expected to do this? Pay all bills as well as the rent. That's normal. Why should a landlord pay bills such as electricity, broadband, TV etc.?

Tbh if it was my house in this situation I think I would just sell it, She didn't pay the £100 chances of her of paying proper rent is iffy at best.

Agree with Imperial

Charge her half the market rate. If you start charging £100/mpnth, and find later you need to put it up, it will be even harder to approach.

Really, she has had a very easy ride for the past seven years - people who live in rented accommodation normally have rent (market rate) AND bills.

MrsJayy's suggestion of warning that the house may need to be sold f she won't pay rent (she can obviously afford too, if she has cars and several holidays a year) is a good one, even if you don't intend to sell come hell or high water. She would realise that her next possible landlord wouldn't be so accomodating.

I think I'm going to ask her for half market rent, she always knew that at some point we would need the house back for one of the dc's to live in or to fund the deposit for their own house so her living there was never a permanent arrangement. I wish I didn't have to ask but 2 dc and no maintenance grants is an expensive business! My children have to come first, I'm guna have to man up and sort this mess out.

Get a proper tenancy agreement, and make it clear that rent is going to be increased regularly and quickly till it reaches market rent levels.

I would start laying it on really thick about not having any money to repair the car and having difficulty paying your mortgage payments and with the children at university having to pay their bills to.
Tell her DH has decided that you need to sell the house that she is living in and then leave it at that. Then in a further conversation on a different day tell her that you are thinking of renting it out Via an agency. This might give her time to panic and worry about what she's going to do and then you suggesting a rental would be a 'lifeline' to her.

Most people have to pay RENT and then the BILLS on top of that.

Aren't all tenants expected to do this? Pay all bills as well as the rent. That's normal. Why should a landlord pay bills such as electricity, broadband, TV etc.?

Just to reiterate, some people misunderstood that the sister lived WITH the op, and thus thought the sister was paying the OPs family share of the bills as well as their own.

OP. I think that you do need to sit down with your sister now and explain that your financial circumstances have changed and that you now need to charge rent on the property. You can also point out that she has lived there rent free for 7 years so you have helped her out massively. You can't ask her for back rent if you have never asked for it previously, she would have a point in saying that you never asked for it, but you can ask her to pay rent from a certain point onwards. If you don't want to charge the full market value then charge her £500 a month and ensure that she knows this is at a discount.

You might want to take some legal advice first so that you know what her rights are as a tenant and yours as a landlord, or speak to a local estate agent who should also know these things. You can then make it clear to your sister that you will start eviction proceedings if she is not able to pay rent from that chosen date.

If you don't already have one, get an estate agent to draw up a tenancy agreement for you.

Do you have it in writing anywhere about the £100 a month op? If you do make sure you keep that. You need to get her paying ASAP or you could lose the house totally. If she gets arsey and you have the £100 in writing if I was you I would sue her for the last 6 years as well as kicking her out (cannot do 7 due to statue barred).

No I wouldn't ask her for full market rent I was just giving you an idea of the value of the house, I was thinking maybe 100 pound a month ish?

I wouldn't bother for that. Make it something halfway sensible at least; £400 or £500, maybe.

You'll have legal problems down the line if she pays nothing at all, so you do NEED to regularise the situation.

I think I'm going to ask her for half market rent

But WHY? Give it another 7 years, that's another £20k plus you've given away.

This is your KIDS money.

Charge her full market rent, save half of it and in another 7 years you'll have a house deposit you can gift your dc.

Seriously, i'm all for helping people out but why do you feel such a need to subsidise your adult sister and her adult daughter? If you want to do them a favour, let them pay half rent only every December...that's a nice Christmas bonus and by far generous enough as a gesture.

I would tell her that you need money for DC Uni
& will have to put it on the market or find a paying tenant.
Why do you feel you need to give her a marked down rent? she has lived there free for 7 years.
You can tell her the value is X, she will attempt to negotiate.
Take it from there. She will be put out, but you say "You need the income now"

Dsis is not short of money and her and her daughter drive nice cars and go on multiple long haul foreign holidays
You helped your sister out when she needed your help but by allowing her to live rent free in effect you are paying for their cars and their holidays.

Completely agree with the suggestion by WicksEnd.

Give your sister first refusal/option on paying rent of between 50% and 70% of full rental rates, but if she starts kicking off, tell her (don't pussyfoot around it) that you'll be putting the house on the open market for rent at full market rates.

Op you won't be getting maintenance grants for the kids because you own that property, so you are essentially worse off because she isn't paying rent and you and your kids are losing out. Why would she think it's ok not to pay?

The Insurance is mine and I pay it
You need to get some advice on this as if you are not living in the house I am sure that a standard everyday home insurance policy is not sufficient.

You need to start charging rent, insure the house with a LL's policy and give your sister an AST.

The only thing about charging your sister and niece the current market rate is that if they refused and went elsewhere, you would then probably have to spend quite a lot of money (which you don't have at the moment) to get the place presentable/habitable ready for new tenants to move in.
Otherwise, they are massively taking the piss, if they are doing so much better now than they were 7 years ago. Why do they think your family should subsidize them to that extent? Is there a reason, or are they just chronically selfish?

Charging her rent doesn't mean you have to turn into an ogre of a landlord. By all means, you can still help her out if you choose to. If her car blows up one month and she's up shit street, let her off paying rent that month as a nice gesture.

You're crazy op, you're throwing money down the drain every month and still planning to continue by not charging what the house is worth.

All these posts suggesting 50% of market rent or only charging a couple of hundred quid a month are driving me wild! I just don't get it...she's not vulnerable (I assume, from your posts), she's certainly not poor or struggling or skint. WHY?

Your sister has had life very easy for seven years by the sounds of it. No wonder she can afford great holidays. As said above, this is your and your children's money you are effectively giving away. She needs to pay rent properly or just a little under for goodwill or move out and let you rent or sell the house. If she gets arsey about it then i would think she is well out of order. Probably a good idea to give her sufficient notice of this change to her finances however.

This is your KIDS money
Exactly why do you want to give your sister and your niece your money instead of giving it to your own kids.

You must charge her rent. You must. Absolutely. Be prepared for a shit storm. In fact I'd contact a solicitor first. She might even have squatters rights or something, I don't know the law.

Yes, it's your kids money, and you're giving it to someone else. Why?

Have you spoken to a solicitor? Of course she should pay rent, but you need to check that you haven't done something legally foolish by letting her live there without paying rent for so long. Is there any written evidence that this was not a permanent agreement?

Hopefully your sister will see that it's only fair for her to cough up, but bitter experience tells me otherwise.