To wonder if a lot of people secretly hold views that are abhorrent (some offensive content)

[onlythedaze]

I have been wondering about this off and on over the weekend.

I was in a quiet part of an airport lounge on Friday night, some children were running around and a couple near me made a comment that was mildly acerbic but nonetheless pleasant enough - along the lines of, thank goodness they aren't ours, and then in a very low voice, the wife said to her husband something offensive about the race of some of the children. They both laughed in a conspiratorial way.

They looked perfectly ordinary, well dressed, well presented, smiling, professional. Not BNP members or skinheads or whatever the stereotype is.

Now before anybody leaps on me for saying that I sound naive, I don't think I am - I think a lot of people are actually secretly very racist, sexist, homophobic but don't voice these views because they are considered taboo.

Or am I being dramatic?

Little Englander is an acceptable form of ' Othering ' innit.

Aye little Englanders is other its a marker that we are not like them

I don't understand this term Little Englander be thrown around. Why is it racist etc... etc...to be proud of being English? There is no celebration for St George's day but come St Patrick's day every pub has a event on the go.

Little Englanders is an insult because it is saying that white people in their little safe Hamlets and villages are ignorant and insular that is what Little Englander means of course you do get ignorant and insular people but you can be patriotic without being a knob.

Blue YY. Its the lack of debate (and the inability of people to actually debate at all) that is the biggest issue.

MrsJayy That's my point too. Why can we not be proud of our nation with out fear of liberals thinking we are racists bigots for it? Damn right I'm proud to be English. Why shouldn't I be.

Er where are the posts saying you can't be buster?

Right wing bigotted groups have claimed the English flag and being English to push their agendas which is a disgrace imo so if somebody displayed an English flag on St Georges day their might be an assumption that they are Right wing with an agenda (if that makes sense)

Little Englanders being thrown around all over this thread!

Yes buster, but are they saying it about people using the flag?
(No)

It's the difference between patriotism (I love my country) and xenophobia (I hate everyone else's). I take the phrase little Englander to refer to the xenophobic, not the patriotic. And the rhetoric of the current government is veering towards xenophobia.

Trouble is, most people don't know the difference.

BirdyBirdyWoofWoof I don't believe I mentioned the flag.

So for me the St George's flag has been taken over as a symbol of the xenophobic, which I am not. The Union flag less so. Probably there are people in Scotland who feel the same about the Saltire.

Ok celebration of St. George's day - have you been called a little englander for wanting to celebrate at George's day?

I worry a little that there's only a narrow range of "acceptable views" that can be expressed; not only because I think it's a threat to freedom of speech more generally, but because it's not helpful to drive these things underground. I think it's far better to have a situation where people feel able to express a range of views which can then be challenged

Beautifully put - as you say, better surely to be able to challenge real racism in the hope it can be reduced, rather than enable such folk to claim victimhood by insisting "we can't say anything these days"

That said, I also worry that inappropriate overuse of the "racist bigot" tag has damaged the cause somewhat. We see it on threads all the time, and when accusers are asked to point out the supposedly offensive posts, all too often there's either no reply, or they insist they actually meant something else and try to change the subject

Happily, posts which really do go too far are quickly removed (and quite right too) but I honestly don't think instances such as the above help

Or for being 'proud of being british'?

Has someone told you this is not acceptable?

I grew up in a country where race was a big issue, however since coming to live in the UK I've noticed that racism is differen here. Where I grew up the language seems more racist but the attitudes are not inherently bad. People live harmoniously and like each other. Here the language is more politically correct but some people have attitudes that are truly awful, there seems to be more hatred and really malicious people here.

Derxa

Did I say that? No. Plenty of people over 50 aren't racist, but the generational gap I meant was people in their 80s and 90s who still use words like "coloured" because that was considered the polite term when they were growing up.

I'm 40 and thus was shocked when I heard someone not that much older than me saying what that cab driver said. There was no excuse for him to hold those views at all, he was brought up in the same time as me and I don't have those views, nor do any of my friends.

I worry a little that there's only a narrow range of "acceptable views" that can be expressed; not only because I think it's a threat to freedom of speech more generally, but because it's not helpful to drive these things underground. I think it's far better to have a situation where people feel able to express a range of views which can then be challenged

True to an extent BUT there are some things that just aren't acceptable including racism, sexism and homophobia. Those are not "views" or "opinions" but cold hard facts. We can have views on Syria, religion, politics, the right way to make tea etc but I will not have anyone saying digusting racist, homophobic or sexist views. If you want to have those views then fine, but you have them in the privacy of your own home. You certainly don't go chatting to anyone who'll listen about your views and why we should send everyone back to where they came from.

It's the whole concept that these bigots think we all think the same way as them that disgusts me. They read The Sun and therefore think that represents all of us just because it represents their little viewpoint.

Yes it is the assumption that we agree with the Pov that gets to me too

What exactly is the problem with what the couple said OP?
They said : thank goodness they aren't ours. As in, those children are badly behaved, running around as if they are in a playground, when in actual fact they are in an airport and a totally different level of behaviour should be displayed? She's saying she wouldn't have let her children behave that way.

And what's wrong with that?

I totally agree. I have said the same many times. How is that abhorrent? I said it to my own children last night. I say it to them repeatedly. They can't seem to understand that running around Costco and hiding between the racks of clothes is not ok. It's not a playground. At a semi posh restaurant, totally different behaviour is appropriate to a cafe or McDonald's or wherever. I seem to be having a hard time getting my boys to understand this ATM.

And many different families have different standards. Some white families would allow conduct that other families would not condone.
Other families have different rules. My friend is in a mixed marriage, her husband is Indian. Even he admits that his mums style of parenting was very different and not at all strict and believes that he and his brother got away with murder. He says that the other families in his area, all the same. The boys got away with a lot. This isn't my view of it. It's his view.

So when we say other nationalities and other ethnicities do things differently and some are much more lapse, (not all because this is a generalisation, that obviously can't be applied to all, but we all admit that there are some families within every culture that are extremely strict) but his view stands, as his view that all the Indian mums he knew were pretty soft on the boys.

So what the couple said, is probably quite true.
And that's not racist. It's just a fact. A generalisation. But, sometimes it isn't that far off the mark.
And it's certainly not 'abhorrent'.

Wow!

Ovlomov - it was the name they called the children that was abhorrent, not the discussion of their behaviour.

I can only assume obv just skim read the ops posts...not even a 'I'm not a racist but...' kind of racist would defend this.

Ok.
Op hasn't actually told us what the offensive comment was, about these mixed race children.
I wonder what is was? And how bad it was?
Maybe she'll come back and tell us.