To wonder if a lot of people secretly hold views that are abhorrent (some offensive content)

[onlythedaze]

I have been wondering about this off and on over the weekend.

I was in a quiet part of an airport lounge on Friday night, some children were running around and a couple near me made a comment that was mildly acerbic but nonetheless pleasant enough - along the lines of, thank goodness they aren't ours, and then in a very low voice, the wife said to her husband something offensive about the race of some of the children. They both laughed in a conspiratorial way.

They looked perfectly ordinary, well dressed, well presented, smiling, professional. Not BNP members or skinheads or whatever the stereotype is.

Now before anybody leaps on me for saying that I sound naive, I don't think I am - I think a lot of people are actually secretly very racist, sexist, homophobic but don't voice these views because they are considered taboo.

Or am I being dramatic?

There are people still around who grew up in a culture where Negro was the polite word, used instead of a word which rhymes with trigger.

Outside work don't we all naturally socialise more comfortably with people from a culture similar to our own? And those people are more likely to be of the same ethnicity as ourselves. Nothing to be ashamed of or embarrassed about there.

*In my defence FFS

And tbh, I think that way of doing is very british and in some ways very hypocritical.

I much prefer a society where people WILL say that gays are this and black people are that because its much easier to then challenge and hopefully make people change their mind (over time, I'm not naive enough to think one person telling them its offensive will be enough).
Whereas when its all hidden, it comes out in attitudes, ways that people are treated and its much much harder to tackle. How do you know that x is getting a harder time mainly because they dont quite do their job right or because they are black for example?
I found it very clear for example with misogyny. It would have been impossible to point out how, in the place I was working, people were looking down on me because I was a woman (and therefore just could NOT do a good job as an engineer). But there was a very clear difference in treatment wo being obvious iyswim (lets say llike comment about women not able to do the job or whatever)

Negro though its like some old colonial nonsense how can people be so detached from the world that they still wonder where a theatre got a Negro from ?

MN shows that everyone has opinions that R offensive to somebody. Not necessarily race related, pick any topic you like.

Andrew yes we all do.
It doesn't mean people are racist by doing that. They would be if they were avoiding mixing with people who are black/asian/gays/whatever it is they have an issue with.

Of course a lot of people do. I suspect everyone has some views that don't fit into what is socially acceptable. They just don't talk about it.

Can i politely point out that not every body on this thread is English so talking about little Englanders is assuming we are all talking about Little Englanders we are not

YANBU OP i think you're right.

Only skimmed thread so i'm probably repeating, but i think the change in what's acceptable in language these days doesn't mean there aren't still the same old prejudices hanging around. People are just aware they have to keep their bigotry undercover.

So op you think the rise of racist attacks since the referendum has nothing to do with the referendum?

Okayyyy.

Can i politely point out that not every body on this thread is English so talking about little Englanders is assuming we are all talking about Little Englanders we are not You're flogging a dead horse there, MrsJ

We know plenty of Wee Scotlanders I suspect.

Well, quite, some of the 'debate' around the Scottish referendum was nationalism at it's absolute worse.

And of course one doesn't have to be white to be racist. Overheard in my local library, kids section, child of Chinese origin calling a black kid a n**r.

No need to wonder OP.

Every so often on MN you have a "Secret opinions thread". They are almost entirely:

1. Hero worship of Katie Hopkins
2. Racism and various anti-immigration sentiments.
3. Mocking children with special needs.

Also, I been on threads here where people defend Bashar Al Assad, despite his mass slaughter of civilians, so I don't think people on here are that secretive about the hideous opinions they hold.

Suggest some of you look at the origin on the term 'little Englander'
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Englander
I find it extremely offensive to use this term in the way it is applied to 17.5 million people who live and work and take pride in being English/British
Talk about tarring everyone with the same brush (unless that is also offensive to use?)

Outside work don't we all naturally socialise more comfortably with people from a culture similar to our own? And those people are more likely to be of the same ethnicity as ourselves. Nothing to be ashamed of or embarrassed about there

Actually this is an interesting point I've always wondered about.

I grew up in London and my friends are literally every race and gender and identity you can think of.

But some people I know only have friends who are very similar or the same to themselves. I always wonder how? Especially living in a city... don't you have to go out of your way to only maintain friendships with people the same as you?

What we are seeing increasingly in this country is that views that were once secret are now being spoken openly- views that were the once abhorrent are now being normalised.

I find people are taking stances and the lack of any civilised debate means they become even stronger in their stance. I have noticed this with brexit, anti semitism and this week child refugees. All middle ground drowned out by shouty views who have no intention of listening or discussing. The lack of discussion does nothing but increase stereotypes. But yes there are always people with abhorrent views.

I think most people hold certain views that aren't very politically correct, I'm sure I probably do. I think a fewer number are on the more extreme end of it.

I'm part of a chat group for Uni (I'm a first year so just started), there are about 50 - 60 in this particular chat group. One of our tutors is from Nigeria and through one of the lectures I noticed that the chat group last week was getting very active so had a look. One girl kept posting racist crap, the tutor had on a black top so she commented that she couldn't see the tutor as her skin was as dark as her top (or words to that effect), then she was saying that the tutor wouldn't be allowed to teach where she's from (Poland) because they'd all just laugh at her I was so fucking gobsmacked that she was saying this rubbish in a group chat with such a large number of people - luckily a LOT of people jumped in and told her to keep her racist opinions to herself, she did continue and tried to make light of it. Then says she's not racist! I've left it for now but if she carries on I'll have no problem in printing out the full conversation and taking it to the head of the department (or is that OTT? will they do anything as it's a private chat group?) I will have no problem telling her that I've taken it further either so not worried about this 'outing' me.

I agree with the idea that people can be secretly racist despite a veneer of respectability. Where I live, nice MC area, very high burglary rate. Full of very nice anti- racist Remainers, highly educated and so on, almost exclusively white, devastated by Brexit. Pay 400k for a nice big town house. Just down the main road ( literally) are equally beautiful houses, similar crime rate, same school catchment area, same sized houses for 250k. Why do these lovely people not buy houses there, in the area with a significantly higher population of BME. Baffling eh. ( People not choosing to live in second area are on the whole, not born and bred here). One truly lovely kind dad I was talking to was trying to describe a member of school staff to me, saying that ' lovely black girl ' - only referring to skin colour to identify her, I hadn't a clue until I realised he meant Asian. Not racist but not a ' mistake' I'd have made being brought up in this very multicultural area. I don't know what I'm trying to say exactly with my point about houses but to assume those who bark about racism the loudest aren't guilty of it themselves in their lifestyle choices is naive imho. They also choose to not send their children to the school with a very low white population, despite comparable ofsted.

Most people hold one or more views that would be considered unpleasant at best, but many of us are conditioned to bite our tongues. A good friend of mine holds views that I'd consider socialist bordering on communist yet she would probably consider me anti welfare at best.

Always shocked by the apologism for racism that occurs on Mumsnet. I can maybe..maybe understand an elderly person thinking 'half-caste' is the correct term, but 'half-breed'?! That's straight from the 1930s/ a cattle auction

I dont think views have always been secret they have always been there simmering away just sometimes we hear things like oh we are all so pc these days or i say it like it is as if that excuses them from being knobs.

Dont forget Negro we must not forget people are still saying Negro

PoppyBirdOnAWire

Interesting that on a thread about being offensive you think that its ok to use the term "little Englanders".

I agree that there are a lot of prejudiced views around, but definitely not all coming from white people. Many Asian's think white people (women?) are easy and have no morals for example, black people from different countries and continents can be very negative towards each other, and white people can be very nasty about other white people; e.g. English about Polish. Oh and many African people are very homophobic. I think there is a sense that resources are finite; housing, jobs etc, and people are feeling pretty negative about the future, which leads to fear, negativity, and sometimes hate. I think this is encouraged by the media in some ways and is good old fashioned divide and rule, used to keep the focus away from the fact that the super rich are stealing the countries resources and lessening our rights (employment, housing) under our very noses.
E.g. It was legal to squat until recently. All those big fuck off houses sitting empty in Central London, owned by Russian criminals (my prejudice)... They would have been squatted legally by young creative people (like Boy George back in the day). And why not? They were empty. Now it's illegal. We should get back to hating the upper classes and super rich instead of hating each other.