Friend's Friend drinking all the time.!

[OutnumberedMomma]

AIBU? My friends best friend is almost 6 months pregnant and seems to be drinking quite a lot and my friend is no help to her as she is the one going out to the pubs with her feel like I am being so judgemental but if that was my best friend I would be having a stern word with her not enabling her. I myself am also pregnant and would never dream of having a drink whilst pregnant not judging anyone else for having a glass here or there but this girl is out most weekends and even adds stuff to her social networks apps like 3 bottles of cider for £5 etc...As I said she is almost 6 months and is so small you wouldn't even think she is pregnant, could this be from all the drinking she does?
I suppose we have different views of pregnancy and I feel so lucky and blessed to even be able to carry a child I would never jeopardise that. Kind of pisses me off she is taking it for granted as there are so many women in the world who would do anything to be in her shoes!

AIBU?

I wouldn't use the term 'thick', trifle.

Is that really all you got from my post?

What do you mean, Shockers?

Their professionalism and ethics would be questioned if they didnt report/follow up on concerns raised about a (potentially) vulnerable patient and her unborn child in the case of a child protection issue.

If they just shrugged their shoulders and said 'not my business' they would be failing in their duty of care

Your reply was only about my use of the word competent. There was a lot more in my post.

I know that pregnant women have rights (as they absolutely should- no question). But somebody surely should have the welfare of the foetus in mind too, if the mother can't, or won't.

Being an ex foster carer, an adopted parent, and also working with children who have EBD, I understand all about how some parents aren't equipped to parent successfully, and that they need sensitive help to do so. The earlier this is addressed and support put in place, the better the outcome.

Start by asking your friend if she has actually spoken to her friend about her drinking? Your friend obviously has no qualms about going out drinking with her, so has a damn cheek slagging her off behind her back. Just because someone post 3 bottles of cider for £5 doesn't actually mean they have been buying and drinking them.

*adoptive (autocorrect)

I know there was more in your post, Shockers. I did not comment on it because, while it is tragic, it doesn't change my mind about the rights of pregnant women to privacy and autonomy.

Abso: I think the failure would come at the point at which they began discussing their patients with members of the public. I would be beyond furious if my midwife even acknowledged my pregnancy to a third party member of the public. Completely unethical. And to go to someone's midwife expecting this sort of discussion based on something you have heard from another third party? It defies belief that anyone would think this was their place.

Your friend obviously has no qualms about going out drinking with her, so has a damn cheek slagging her off behind her back

I think this answers Trifle's question re: 'why wouldn't you trust your friend?'

I agree that wouldn't be ethical. I do think a concerned person should be able to report to SS though.

If another person kicked this woman in the stomach and caused harm to the foetus, could they be prosecuted for assault on the unborn child, as well as the mother? I know this happens if the baby dies.

I think they would be subject to a higher penalty for foetal destruction, Shockers, but that is because of the enhanced detriment to the assaulted person when their baby dies as a result of the assault. It isn't a crime against the baby per se because the 'baby' is a foetus, not a legal person.

To be fair, I might be wrong about that. I can't honestly say I'm sure. But I don't think it has a bearing on whether a pregnant woman can drink alcohol. We know she can.

trifle no you're right the midwife shouldn't engage in a 'discussion' with a member of the public about someone's pregnancy... That would indeed be a breech of confidentiality and they would quite rightly be dragged over the coals for it.

I'm not advocating any 'discussions' or 'meetings'.... I'm advocating the OP calls either the local child protection phone line or contacts the community midwife team, say she has a concern about X (giving any identifiable details she has, name, dob, address or whatever) and leaving that information with them to do with as they see fit. That's all

That would be up to her, but I think that is seriously misguided based on the reality that she doesn't actually know how much the pregnant lady is drinking, and drinking - even while pregnant - is a perfectly legal activity.

I know there was more in your post, Shockers. I did not comment on it because, while it is tragic, it doesn't change my mind about the rights of pregnant women to privacy and autonomy.

That's right. You wouldn't want people's real life experiences or professional opinion getting in the way of you labouring your point endlessly.

So everyone's personal experiences should be a trigger for me to change/retract my opinion, or just shut up? I am only responding, SleepFree.

The thing is Trifle, if DD became pregnant, SS would intervene because she actually wouldn't be competent (not thick... and that is why I wouldn't use that term), due to damage caused by alcohol when she was a foetus.

So the actions of her BM, although not malicious, go far beyond her own body, through her daughter and possibly to a grandchild.

Is that fair?

I certainly think a personal experience of the subject we are discussing was worth more acknowledgement than you gave it yes. I also think someone that works in this particular specialism is also worth a listen.

Personally I couldn't care a jot whether you want to change your opinion or steadfastly stick to your views. What's important to me is that the OP isn't flamed on here and made to feel that she is wrong to be concerned. If she genuinely thinks she has all the facts and that the 'foetus' is potentially being damaged, then I hope she follows Asbo's advice and reports it.

Of course it isn't fair. It's horrible. But I am also a pregnant woman, and the legal and ethical reality is that this is my body and those are my choices. Others can disapprove if they wish, but they don't get to take control of my body and actions, even to protect a future person.

And btw, I didn't mean to suggest that you were implying that all non-competent adults are 'thick' - some people, however, do imply that a person who makes decisions they believe are stupid, who is otherwise a mentally competent adult, shouldn't be able to make their own choices. And that is a mistaken belief.

Sleep, I am not not listening to others simply because I disagree with them. And I am aware of the causes and implications of FAS. If I don't agree that pregnant women should lose their bodily autonomy because of the existence of FAS, I am unlikely to change my mind because a poster has experience of it. That isn't dismissal, it is just consistent with my previously formed opinion. Also, I am certainly not flaming the OP - she was asking whether she was BU, and I think she was.

Again you're right that no one can actually control the actions of a pregnant woman (unless she has been sectioned or defined legally incompetent by a judge).... I don't think anyone is advocating arresting this woman for drinking during pregnancy.

What many of us are suggesting is the OP reports her concerns so that the authorities can determine the level of risk here to both the pregnant woman and her baby, and put appropriate support strategies in place. Nothing to do with violating her bodily autonomy or taking control of her

I think it is highly controlling to do this without a) having personally witnessed her drinking at all and b) not actually knowing how much she is drinking in order to form a genuine concern. If she clearly had a serious alcohol problem I would be arguing differently, but there is no suggestion that this is the case. The OP doesn't know how much she drinks, only that she goes out regularly. Well, so do many pregnant women. It is controlling to 'report' her drinking as if she shouldn't be allowed to continue what she is doing, when the OP doesn't actually know what she is doing.

Only the OP can use her judgment in that one on what she knows or not.

My replies were only in response to comments that 'it's none or your business' and 'there's nothing you can do'.

I was saying to the OP if you are genuinely concerned then hold protection is your business and there is something you can do.

OP good luck whatever you decide to do

*child not hold

Good luck to her when she has a baby:child with foetal alcohol syndrome. I think it tends to show itself later on in childhood and not at birth (i.e. Not meeting developmental milestones, learning difficulties).