Friend's Friend drinking all the time.!

[OutnumberedMomma]

AIBU? My friends best friend is almost 6 months pregnant and seems to be drinking quite a lot and my friend is no help to her as she is the one going out to the pubs with her feel like I am being so judgemental but if that was my best friend I would be having a stern word with her not enabling her. I myself am also pregnant and would never dream of having a drink whilst pregnant not judging anyone else for having a glass here or there but this girl is out most weekends and even adds stuff to her social networks apps like 3 bottles of cider for £5 etc...As I said she is almost 6 months and is so small you wouldn't even think she is pregnant, could this be from all the drinking she does?
I suppose we have different views of pregnancy and I feel so lucky and blessed to even be able to carry a child I would never jeopardise that. Kind of pisses me off she is taking it for granted as there are so many women in the world who would do anything to be in her shoes!

AIBU?

So I can only repeat my question: are you saying, that since the foetus has no rights before 24 weeks, drinking is okay?

And the answer is still quite simple, btw - you don't have the option of n abortion after 24 weeks, but you can legally drink alcohol. It is at the discretion of the mother because the foetus isn't a legal person and cannot be 'abused'.

I don't know why you at so fixated on accusing me of saying things I have at no point said. The friend is 6 months pregnant, therefore in the eyes of the law it has a right not to be aborted and yet doesn't have the right to be poisoned by excessive drinking or smoking. The whole thing is bonkers to me.

But leaving legalities aside morally I think if you have a chance to intervene to try and save a child from becoming disabled, you should at least try. I am honestly confused as to why you so vehemently disagree with that argument.

to not* be poisoned

It may be bonkers but it's true. You have no right to prevent a pregnant woman getting drunk. None. Zero. If you are confused, it is because it surprises you that anyone would stand by that as a fundamental truth. But I do, because I know enough about what happens when women are treated as walking incubators instead of as competent adults.

I've just said that if you leave the legal side behind do you have a moral obligation to try and intervene?

Let's try another scenario. A friend has a black eye and she seems to be acting very different to the woman you once knew. More isolated and jumpy, her partner seems controlling and prone to frequent bad moods. You know that legally she has the right to be with whomever she chooses, but you wonder if you should have a word, make sure that everything is ok. Now do you just butt out and think it's none of your business or do you try and spark up a conversation that might allow you to express your concern? I assume you would think it none of your business?

Except that 1) these women aren't friends 2) the woman herself is under medical care and is making informed choices 3) you would not be acting out of concern for her, but concern for a (currently) non-person living inside her 4) we don't actually know that a couple of drinks (even if she is out every week) will harm her baby - most medical evidence suggests not. And I say this as a pregnant woman who is very excited about my baby! Your position is controlling and condescending.

Holy fucking shit, you're advising talking to her doctor ?! Yup, parallel universe alright

Babies in utero can be subject to child protection plans, especially in cases of domestic violence, previous child abuse convictions, severe mental health issues (eg psychosis) and drug and alcohol abuse.... (Hopefully any child protection social workers reading this maybe able to clarify the legal parameters more clearly....?)

It's been a good 5+ years since I worked in HV (but I can't imagine it's changed that much in this respect).... But was aware of several babies-in-utero subject to child protection plans. Such as babies due to be removed at birth and placed in foster care or those babies who had to go straight to NICU for heroin withdrawal management.

I don't agree that people should 'mind their own business' in these situations, child protection is everyone's business.

GCHQ good for you for having the courage to do something, that must have been hard.

OP if you are genuinely concerned about the large amount of alcohol you say you know is being consumed there are things you can do. Most counties have child protection phone lines you can call and leave information about concerns. Or you can contact the local midwives and ask them to pass the information onto the relevant community midwife and health visiting teams. You will need to provide some identifying information like her full name and dob or address so they can find her on the system. I think usually you don't have to give your name if you are worried about doing this.

The reasons I would do this is so that the authorities can determine the level of risk here. Her midwifery team may be unaware of her drinking. This can have implications for her health during pregnancy and they will ensure she gets the appropriate level of monitoring. They can also refer women to prenatal support groups and health promotion programs- they have specialist midwives who deliver these.

They may also liaise with her HV team after the baby is born who may wish to carry out extra development checks on the baby or refer to a Paediatrician.

You could be helping to ensure that this potentially vulnerable pregnant women and her baby were getting the support that they may need.

such a difficult situation all round

Thank you for your informed post Abso. I totally agree.

I wouldn't want to be friends with your friend either. Disgusting that she doesn't want to lose her drinking partner and is also willing to put her needs before that of her mates unborn child. YUK!

If the mother has a serious problem with alcohol that would justify the removal of her baby at birth, this would most likely already have been picked up by her healthcare team and she would be in receipt of support for her problem already. Midwives aren't stupid.

It is a ridiculous overreaction to talk about approaching her doctor or midwife and I imagine they, as well as most other sane people you spoke to, would be quite shocked that you thought this was appropriate.

If it isn't the case that she is an alcoholic, and she is choosing to drink moderately during pregnancy as many women do, it isn't going to get onto the radar of social services. It's just a choice she is making that you happen to disagree with.

Either way, during her actual pregnancy, she is breaking no laws even if she is drinking an unreasonable amount of alcohol.

No-one said she is lying, Navy.

She could, however, be exaggerating or mistaken. I'm not sure I would be automatically convinced by the motivation or the accuracy of someone who consciously goes out drinking to excess with a pregnant woman, then moans about her drinking

Yes, exaggerating. Gossips do, you know! This isn't fact in any case, it's hearsay.

I thought the OP's friend was the (very trustworthy, I'm sure) drinking companion of the pregnant lady, who the OP also knows. Am I mistaken?

Right. That is what hearsay is. Something you have heard from someone else, but not witnessed yourself. People are suggesting to the OP that she takes herself off to the local doctor's surgery and asks to see the midwife or GP of a woman she knows, because she has heard rumours that she drinks a lot.

Unless the OP is the pregnancy police the midwife is going to think she is a total psycho.

Of course there are some people I believe unquestioningly, but that doesn't make what they say 'fact'. There are some people I don't believe unquestioningly as well, usually friends who gossip about other friends when they have been equally involved in whatever event they are describing. This case definitely meets the definition of hearsay and will appear so to any medical professional because, by the time they are hearing it, it will be:

'Some lady turned up at the surgery to tell us her mate said their other mate drinks and she's pregnant.'

'Oh right. Did she have wide, staring eyes and a generally intense aura about her? File under 'Bollocks' please.'

I believe I said mention the drinking to a nurse/midwife, not go see a doctor. I'm sure the medical profession have policies in place to deal, with such things effectively and discreetly and know whether the info they're given may be malicious or not. They could also highlight the danger the woman is putting her baby in and/or provide her with any support she may wish to access.

FAS isn't fun and has life long consequences www.fasdnetwork.org/what-is-fasd.html
I wonder people saying keep your nose out, if you'd have the same perspective if it was one of your friends/acquaintances and how you'd behave after the birth if the child did have FAS.