'It might not have been rape, she might have had sex and regretted it afterwards'

[BravoHopeful]

This statement makes no sense. If you had consensual sex and the next day regretted it, why on earth would you go through the whole horrible experience of reporting it to the police and everything that follows? You would just move on and put it behind you.

It's always trotted out as a likely explanation in 'date rape' type cases. But it makes no sense whatsoever. AIBU?

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I didn't scream. It's what haunts me the most, that there were people walking past nearby and screaming might have stopped it. I was unable to move or do anything. Even when he'd finished and left, I stayed where I was for God knows how long.

Clearly you don't know what would have happened, it could have made him really violent if you'd screamed. You could have risked your life. Please don't blame yourself for anything. The opinions of rape apologists mean fuck all. They are ignorant.

And freezing is a real thing, even though people don't get it. I know it is because it happened to me.

That really fucking annoys me. It's a standard adrenaline response - fight, flight or freeze. Yet for some reason this is understandable on a situation where the victims adrenaline is likely to bexperience sky high.
The advice to girls when I was younger was to keep still and not fight or scream in case you got murdered instead of raped

*not understandable

I don't talk about it with many people, as in my experience they don't understand how it is possible to freeze and not be able to scream, fight etc. I don't want them to think that actually it was just regretful sex. It fucking wasn't.

Me too, in fact I've never told anyone in real life. I nearly told a doctor once to get help for my PTSD but he said I was better off not telling anyone as it would be difficult to deal with if I did acknowledge it. It seems that a lot of people would blame me anyway, so what's the point.

Clearly you were having to "deal with it" already though. What stupid advice.

This is why "I believe you" is so important.

Hugs and to all of you. It's why I keep posting on threads like this, just to try to counterbalance the endless tide of shite and bile posted by the likes of Korma and Slender. (And that is not a personal attack - but their views, that women somehow bring rape upon themselves and some rape victims are worthier than others, indeed, some women by virtue of their lifestyle choices are unrapeable - their views are a tide of shite and bile).

That's not practical though is it

What isn't? Understanding consent? It's only impractical to rapists.

I didn't say or imply people with low IQ can't understand consent. don't think this at all! I was comparing people who say "I don't understand consent" to another minority group like people who can't figure out how to catch trains and therefore get lost or take the wrong connections. My advice would be until they learn how to do it properly, avoid train stations. Same with men who can't understand consent. I take it you don't agree people who struggle with consent shouldn't be having sex? If not why not?

And I don't know why you keep insisting on blaming feminists, we are the ones fighting for these women yet you imply we are doing damage to the cause? Lets face it - no one else gives a shit about rape victims it seems

the endless tide of shite and bile posted by the likes of Korma and Slender

You asked why conviction rates are so low. I gave an example. You didn't like it.

I'm against rape as much as you, but have different views. You challenge anyone who dares to disagree with you by name calling and confusion.

That isn't an example of someone who wants to engage in making things better for women.

Why do you imagine your example didn't go down well, korma? It's only your "different view", after all. Do you think people are only disagreeing with you for fun? Many of the people posting here are rape survivors. Perhaps listen to them?

pink The way that feminists go about achieving their goals can alienate others, including women I believe. And the only people feminists are harder on than rapists are women who don't accept their help, protection and dogmatic definitions of life, the universe and everything. IF you were less militant and sure the world is against you, you might find that plenty of people share some of your views and would happily find common ground with you. That would be constructive. But you are so keen to write off anyone who doesn't toe your specific line that you have the rest of the world defined as woman-hating rapist-lovers before you really know what they stand for. I think far more people (including men) care about rape victims than you realise. They just don't necessarily agree with you on every point and your insistence on having the prerogative to define these matters and state categorically what women must think etc. is isolating. For feminists. And undermines your points, frankly.

Have you not read any of the posts by victims of rape on this thread talking about how upsetting they findyyour posts? Do you really not have a clue why so many women upthread were upset by your post implying that "promiscuous" women were unrapeable?

pink

Your analogy doesn't go very far because people who can't catch trains will have a specific problem such as low IQ- or will need educating. I don't think it's worth going into, especially when you seem pretty convinced that the only people who would need educating on matters of consent are - no one.

I've already said to you that I agree that educating men who want to rape women will make no difference at all. I've agreed with someone else who pointed out that education at a much deeper and earlier level might make a difference to the intentions men grow up with.

Since you don't think there can ever be ambiguity over matters of consent, this is unlikely to be fruitful - I'm interested in tackling a problem you believe - forcefully - doesn't exist.

You're confusing me with someone else I think met.

clearly If you are implying that I would blame you, that is categorically not the case and my earlier post to you stands.

My response was to korma a few posts earlier. But I also think your insistence on grey areas is very dangerous because it contributes to the culture which results in shockingly low conviction rates.

Mostly wasn't talking to you, slender. You really don't read posts, do you?

I've been lucky that I've never been raped, however from the ages of 16-19 I still lived at home and my stepdad sexually harassed me. When I came out the bathroom after having a shower he'd be standing masturbating and I would run into my room and barricade it shut. He would grab my bum when my mum wasn't looking. When mum wasn't in the house he'd 'talk dirty' to me through my bedroom wall or door. He once grabbed my crotch and would sneak into my room when I was out and put the porn channels on so it was there when I came in and switched the TV on. He'd leave sex toys lying around with a note offering me £500 for sex.

I never fought back or said anything because I was utterly utterly terrified. And I didn't think anyone would believe me. When my mum found out what he did, she never spoke of going to the police, only leaving him. She didn't even leave, she's still with him now 11 years later. She told a friend who was surprised because I "didn't come across as a tart". Mum has minimised it and made it about her of course. Every time I bring it up she shuts me down as she can't bear to talk about it, I bring out her anxiety apparently by raising it, and i shouldn't do that to her.

In those years I was promiscuous. Never had boys back at the house as my mum would have hit the roof, but I did stay out a lot and they knew where.

I am fully confident that many people would say that me being sexually active and wearing short skirts and dresses as I went on nights out would have provoked him. Because a 55 year old man can't help but want to fuck his stepdaughter who he'd known since age 5. I'd be asked why I didn't move out sooner, or why I didn't kick him in the nuts. They'd ask what I must have done to give him mixed messages, was I a cock tease, did I lead him on? They'd minimise it by saying I was over the age of consent so it not like he's a paedophile (although I remember incidents from my childhood too). There'd be a huge part of the community who wouldn't believe me full stop, he's a lovely bloke and has a heart of gold and loving wife, in just a silly slag out to get compo. Ridiculous of course said by thickos but it would still hurt deeeply.

This is one of the reasons I've never reported him although nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see him behind bars for his crimes. It's quite painful that people jump to what an ideal victim looks like, tie themselves on knots to find ways women could be at fault and whinge about feminists yet never once show disgust at the actions of these evil men. I pity women who feel they have to speak on behalf of predatory men, they can't even see their own internalised misogyny. And it does real damage to all victims the world over. Well done!

It's thanks to feminism, and MN, and realising my own internalised misogyny, that I finally acknowledge that I'm completely blameless. It's taken a long time but I've got there! Reporting is another story though

I read them about the same amount as you venus

The discussion was about low conviction rates and that women didn't need educating to keep themselves safe. I gave an example where the only evidence was whether consent had been given or not so how can jurors reach a verdict? More likely the case wouldn't even reach court. Educating women (and men) to keep safe and act responsibly is imperative.

Anyone sharing a terrible experience is to be commended.

I'm deeply sorry that happened to you pink - I'm not sure if you will want my sympathy though.

FWIW, I wouldn't in any way think that what happened to you was connected to what you wore etc.

I don't think that was the point karma was trying to make earlier either - not as many enemies here as it seems perhaps.

Oh the irony at being told I'm just not gentle enough in my approach as a feminist and that's why rape myths are spread. I'm just a silly angry woman who no one will take seriously 🙄

It's because of people like you slender it really is! And no I won't toe the line with fools who think consent is a grey area. That belief is one of the reasons conviction rates for rapists are abysmally low, so why on earth would I tie that line? To come across as nice?

Your analogy doesn't go very far because people who can't catch trains will have a specific problem such as low IQ- or will need educating

I used this example because I know someone who is like his. She is a doctor but can't grasp train catching for some reason and it's an ongoing joke in our group of friends. I also once knew a solicitor who struggled with her lefts and rights, some clever people can't grasp basic things. It was you who mentioned low IQs. My point is, misunderstanding consent is an exception not the norm. And if people can't grasp it they should be having sex. Quite simple.