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AIBU?

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Original poster

'It might not have been rape, she might have had sex and regretted it afterwards'

1002 replies

BravoHopeful · 21/10/2016 10:29

This statement makes no sense. If you had consensual sex and the next day regretted it, why on earth would you go through the whole horrible experience of reporting it to the police and everything that follows? You would just move on and put it behind you.

It's always trotted out as a likely explanation in 'date rape' type cases. But it makes no sense whatsoever. AIBU?

OP posts:
PinkyOfPie · 21/10/2016 23:08

Exactly delete the suggestion that saying "fuck off" guarantees a would-be rapist would back off shows a lack of knowledge about rape!

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 21/10/2016 23:14

pinky

I think there must be an inbuilt radar

It just gets boring to be honest..massive thread about rape, lots of personal stories, really heartbreaking

And then...i know someone falsely accused or, do men have to get it in writing now

And they always say it like its a fascinating bit of information that no one on the thread might know

And obviously there are false accusations but as has been stated many, many times they are comparatively rare

slenderisthenight · 21/10/2016 23:14

It's probably safest to wait until they are sober, if you think they might be too drunk to remember if they wanted sex.

Are you saying that men shouldn't have sex with a woman who has been drinking? Is this your recommended advice? Because people want to know what constitutes inadequate consent. If you're saying no one should be having sex after drinking, at least that would bring clarity. (Though t'would be very odd, after many threads insisting women should not having drunken ONS to 'stay safe', if men are now to avoid them ).

'If you think she might not remember it' - how the fuck would you know? Where is this internal breathalyser? Most ONS involve drinking a bit. If you're really saying men should make absolutely sure of exactly how intoxicated women are before considering them as a sexual partner, they need to start carrying breathalysers. Serious point.

If it was so simple, there would be more clear, explicit answers.

DoinItFine · 21/10/2016 23:14

Men who spend the whole night waiting for the "magic" of extreme drunkenness to get them laid by non-enthusiastic women are rapists.

These threads make me really love my batshit crazy MIL who brought uo her son to understand that women would often feel pressured into sex and that he needed to always be 100% sure that any woman he was with genuinely wanted sex at that time with him.

I used to find it weird, because I was used to beiing sexually exploited.

But he taught me what consent really means.

And how there is no "grey area".

slenderisthenight · 21/10/2016 23:15

Though t'would be very odd, after many threads insisting women should not be stopping having drunken ONS to 'stay safe', if men are now to avoid them ).

BottleBeach · 21/10/2016 23:17

Are you saying that men shouldn't have sex with a woman who has been drinking?

Not All Men. Just the ones who don't feel confident in their ability to tell when a woman wants to have sex with them. Smile

JacketPoTayTo · 21/10/2016 23:17

felascloak OK then, what would you consider to be a plausible reason for making a false rape accusation? Or is your issue the fact that I gave any examples whatsoever in response to the OP's question? If so, I will point out yet again (although I was extremely clear about this in my comments) that false accusations are very rare and that the conversation surrounding rape and consent should be focussed on the dismal conviction rates in this country and empowering women to report rape without fear of judgment.

Felascloak · 21/10/2016 23:18

My recommended advice, as a "popular feminist" is that if a man has any concern a woman is too drunk to consent the best course of action is not to have sex with her, yes.
Hardly think that's some kind of left field, radical thinking!
That way 1) he can be 100 % sure he's not a rapist and 2) he doesn't accidentally rape someone.
If she isn't still up for it when sober it probably wasn't a good idea anyway.

slenderisthenight · 21/10/2016 23:19

You're wilfully misunderstanding doinit. I wasn't suggesting that many men try to get women drunk enough to sleep with, not for a second and I'm sure you knew that.

When you have some hard facts to make this consent thing tangible beyond enthusiasm (bearing in mind that many women have consensual but unwanted sex and this doesn't make their partners rapists) let me know.

PinkyOfPie · 21/10/2016 23:19

Oh FFS men don't have to carry breathalysers just use their common sense. Why do we have to spell it out for them? Should we have a charter for what constitutes "too drunk"?

Are you saying that men shouldn't have sex with a woman who has been drinking? Is this your recommended advice?

TBH if I had a son (and I may in around 3 months time) I would say to him to avoid drunken ONS, he can always have it in the morning if she wants to, or another day when she isn't pissed. It may fall on deaf ears but its advice that ensures protection of all parties. Is it so horrific to ask a man to refrain from sticking their dick in someone for just a few hours? Would that be so terrible for them?

slenderisthenight · 21/10/2016 23:22

Exactly delete the suggestion that saying "fuck off" guarantees a would-be rapist would back off shows a lack of knowledge about rape!

Er...I didn't say that. See my earlier comment.

But even my dh thinks that its very obvious when someone is drunk and not able to consent

Well, that would be easy, yes. Falling over drunk is simple. It's everything else in between. Not everyone presents as drunk as they are.

Taking advantage is rape IMO. The 'if I'm lucky I'll get laid' mindset doesn't have to be so extreme I think (not condoning it).

PinkyOfPie · 21/10/2016 23:22

Jacket I once read a more in-depth report around the people who make false allegations. I will try and find it to link to but a number of the women (can't remember exact number) didn't name a specific person it instead say rang the police to say a man had broke into the house and raped her when no such man existed and no event occurred. It's not always about attegrring someone they have actually slept with

DoinItFine · 21/10/2016 23:23

A man who wants to be sure he isn't a rapist probably shouldn't be having sex with very drunk women.

It doesn't matter what MN might say to the woman.

A man concerned about always having full consent will be careful about things like that.

And still he will live. And women will love him. And he will be successful in life and in love.

If you are looking for rules to exploit you are thinking like a rapist.

Felascloak · 21/10/2016 23:25

Yes pinky it's Keir Starmers report.
I don't understand this though. Both jacket and slender seem to think that because something can conceivably happen that must mean it definitely does happen and men need protecting. It's weird.

PinkyOfPie · 21/10/2016 23:26

Er...I didn't say that. See my earlier comment.

Slender fair enough I posted before I saw your comment!

Falling over drunk is simple. It's everything else in between. Not everyone presents as drunk as they are.

Actually it's not. "Falling over" should not be the benchmark of what constitutes "too drunk". For a start, how would a woman prove she was falling over drunk? Would she need bruises and scratches as proof?

MostlyHet · 21/10/2016 23:26

The other thing about drunken, consensual ONS is that in my experience, men get brewer's droop LONG before they get to the stage of insensibility. So if they are physically capable of penetrating a woman, although they might be a bit tiddly, a bit buzzed, they are not drunk to the stage of incapacity. They can still make the judgement call about whether or not the woman is enjoying herself. And if they're in any doubt, where's the harm in not having sex? It's not like their willie is going to drop off.

DoinItFine · 21/10/2016 23:27

When you have some hard facts to make this consent thing tangible beyond enthusiasm (bearing in mind that many women have consensual but unwanted sex and this doesn't make their partners rapists) let me know.

You know this isn't a "hard facts" situation, yet you are demanding them.

So what youbseem to be saying is that consent is tok difficult to determine and so men needn't bother and women should accept that.

Delightful

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 21/10/2016 23:29

slender

Nope he doesnt mean falling down drunk

As you say, that would be too easy..he just means a bit pissed

He may be a higher level of man? Above the usual "unable to tell if a women is enthusiastically consenting"

I mean we can go with that if you like? He does tend to check if i fancy sex before waving his willy around...but he is pretty much two steps removed from a cave man

PinkyOfPie · 21/10/2016 23:31

It seems slender wants some sort of framework as to what does and doesn't constitute consent. Heaven forbid men actually use their brains to ascertain if they have consent or not

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 21/10/2016 23:32

A flow chart pinky?

PinkyOfPie · 21/10/2016 23:33

I just googled 'consent flowchart' and found this gem!

'It might not have been rape, she might have had sex and regretted it afterwards'
DoinItFine · 21/10/2016 23:33

How drunk can she be before I can stick it in?

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 21/10/2016 23:36

Good lord Shock

Everything is on google

JacketPoTayTo · 21/10/2016 23:37

felascloak you are reading things into my comments that are simply not there and ignoring the bits that don't suit you. I don't understand why you are choosing to deliberately try and misrepresent me. I'll leave you to it, you're clearly not interested in an adult conversation.

Pinky I'm sure there are other scenarios besides the ones I mentioned, you raise a very valid point. I'll have a look online for that report.

DoinItFine · 21/10/2016 23:39

An "adult" conversation = one where rape victims are forced to take rape myths seriously

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