'It might not have been rape, she might have had sex and regretted it afterwards'

[BravoHopeful]

This statement makes no sense. If you had consensual sex and the next day regretted it, why on earth would you go through the whole horrible experience of reporting it to the police and everything that follows? You would just move on and put it behind you.

It's always trotted out as a likely explanation in 'date rape' type cases. But it makes no sense whatsoever. AIBU?

I guess that is "adult" in the sense that lots of men find it arousing to see women who have been raped distressec6 by being forced to confront their vulnerability to future assault.

I guess that is "adult" in the sense that lots of men find it arousing to see women who have been raped distressec6 by being forced to confront their vulnerability to future assault.

Ok, fine jacket you are absolutely right, i did ignore your question. It's entirely possible a woman would choose to make a false allegation of rape rather than be embarrassed. I think it's very unlikely but it could happen.
This is relevant how exactly?

I wasn't suggesting that many men try to get women drunk enough to sleep with, not for a second and I'm sure you knew that.
When did that go out of fashion? Goodness. That isn't happening any more? Because 'drunk enough to sleep with' doesn't have to be all that drunk and I'd be hard to convince that it isn't still a game-plan for many men.

It's relevant because that's literally the question that the OP asked!! The question posed was why would a woman who had consensual sex and subsequently changed her mind report this as rape. I gave some reasons as to why I thought some women might do this. I was also exceptionally clear that these women represent a tiny minority and that I do not believe these instances should be at the forefront in discussions about rape, rather that we should be discussing how to secure more convictions and encourage women to feel safe in reporting (as I've now said three fucking times). Please stop trying to make out that I'm victim blaming or whatever it is that you're doing, it's unfair and dishonest.

Fuck me, I ask politely if people mind moving their bags before I sit down on the seat beside them on the train. How hard can it be to ask politely if people mind before sticking your penis into them?

Thank god for DoinItFine. Everything you've said is spot on. Fuck rape apologism which means girls I know who have been raped/sexually assaulted would never ever report it.

NO WOMEN WOULD MAKE AN ALLEGATION OF RAPE BECAUSE SHE REGRETTED SEX MOST WOMEN WHO HAVE BEEN RAPED WOULD NEVER EVEN DARE REPORT IT. IF THEY DID EVERYONE RALLIES ROUND THE BOY BECAUSE HE COULD DO NO WRONG. FUCK OFF WITH THIS SHIT ABOUT GIRLS CRYING RAPE WHEN IT RUINS LIVES

It really is simple. On one end there is enthusiastically engaged in, mutually agreed, happy sex. Hooray. On the other is forceble rape, where there was a clear "no" and additional violence.

In the middle somewhere is 'could be too drunk', 'didn't actually say "yes"', 'inassumed'... The argument appears to be that in the middle, instead of saying that it would be better, to prevent rapes, to just not have sex... we would rather defend men's right to have dodgy, possibly coercive, not consented to, under the influence sex. So rape, very probably.

So it comes down to the same as always, men's right to have sex trumps women's right not to be raped. It doesn't hurt to leave a big margin of error WRT consent. It does hurt to rape people.

A man who wants to be sure he isn't a rapist probably shouldn't be having sex with very drunk women... A man concerned about always having full consent will be careful about things like that. And still he will live. And women will love him. And he will be successful in life and in love.

Yes to this! Thank you DoinItFine

I find it really difficult to understand why some men seem so concerned about the risk of being falsely accused of rape, and at the same time so anxious to defend their right to do things that are... a little bit rapey.

Oh, wait...

I think I hate the women who are so desperate to be rape apologists even more than the many men who excuse rapists. God I thought this was a supportive female space, some of the posters are as bad as the rape joke making boys on Facebook

I understand where you're coming from with that, Fantome, but sometimes women have more to lose than men by adopting a feminist perspective.

Many women who have suffered sexual assault end up rationalising why it couldn't qualify as rape, and blaming themselves (and by extension other women) for "not being clear". Blaming yourself gives you control over the situation, because you can say to yourself, "if I'd done X, it would never have happened. I will do X from now on and it will never happen again". If you've tried to put something like that behind you and it's working, reassessing where the fault really lay is like ripping a scab off a huge wound on your soul, I think. Sure, it might heal better in the future, but right now it's fresh agony.

For women who haven't experienced sexual assault, rape myths can also be reassuring. I hafta say, there was a certain comfort when I believed only attractive women in miniskirts got raped. It was bollocks, but it made me feel safe.

That's a very good post Tara, given me a lot to think about. I shouldn't have posted so aggressively, rape apology (or what I feel is rape apology) and victim blaming just really upsets me. I should try to see why women might do it, whilst still passionately disagreeing.

I'm going to bed utterly disheartened by the rape apologism on this thread from certain posters. Fuck this world, when even on a women's forum like this there's so much rape apology there is no hope. Fuck everything, I fucking wish I'd been born a boy.

I do think things have moved forward since late 80s early 90s wjen i was an older teen.back then if a woman was too drunk to push a man off but not actually passed out, she was considered fair game. There are so many grey areas around consent though.it is perfectly possible for an extremely drunk barely functioning woman to be all over a man.is that consent or not? And what about 'pressure to have sex? Threatening to dump someone if they don't ,sulking , name calling are all used to pressure girls to have sex , are any of them rape? Not really

Fantome sorry you have gone to bed so disheartened. Its a very difficult thread to read - as all these threads are. I too find it utterly baffling to see so many cling on to this notion of a really grey area where a man cannot possibly know if he has consent or not.

As someone raped at 19 who took many years to see it as rape I am very grateful to those who keep rebuffing the rape myths. Thank you. It must be hard work. I am thankful for strong compassionate women.

If you are threatening someone to have sex they don't want, then yes that is rape.

If you are abusing someone to coerce consent, then yes, that is rape.

Consent must be freely given. If it is not, you are a rapist.

Yes, you will almost certainly get away with your rape.

But it won't change what you are.

My experience as a sexually active (indeed promiscuous by the standards of some) young woman in the 90s was very different. Even if we were drunk there would pretty much always come a time (generally the Gibson moment) when both parties would assure themselves the other was completely happy with what was going on. There is nothing difficult about doing that.
No doubt I was lucky but I do believe there are plenty of men out there for whom the point of sex is that your partner enjoys it too. There are plenty who don't care about that of course; prostitution wouldn't exist otherwise. Personally I believe men who use prostitution are likely to have rape histories/potential.

The Gibson moment? The condom moment!

The Gibson moment!

Gibson refers to Melchior Gibson, the man who developed the Gibson Rape Scale in 1911.

This was used to determine what type of rapes were acceptable before it was decided to use the What You Can Get Away With protocol.

It would be nice if one day we as a society as a whole look back and shudder at these myths and the pain that they caused. I agree with tars about them being something to hold onto to reassure yourself you won't be raped or to gain back control. I was threatened with rape but not raped and was still asked 'what did you do to get that response?'

Which led me to question what had I done? Aside from walk past the man. When my best friend was raped she was quoting rape myths to me -I let him in, I should have known he wanted me- not because she believed them but because she knew people would say that to reassure themselves. Obviously after that thinking she didn't bother to report him no matter how much support we gave her and condemned him.

Yes means yes, no means no and the lack of a happily given yes (whether through fear, unconciousness or insbility) is most certainly a big no. It's the last part some people seem to have the biggest issue with which is ridiculous.