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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to think that if you commit an adult crime you shouldn't receive anonymity

460 replies

Ohbehave1 · 18/10/2016 15:35

After hearing that both of the children involved in the murder of a mother and daughter have been found guilty I think that they if they were adult enough murder someone, and then go and watch films and have sex after that they should be old enough to be named after.

Their crimes were particularly nasty, and as such they should live with the consequences for the rest of their lives. They certainly shouldn't be able to do a few years and then get out with anonymity and start their lives as if nothing ever happened.

OP posts:
LifeLong13 · 19/10/2016 01:27

Adult crimes vs Children's crimes? So where's the boundary?

Are adult crimes murder, rape, terrorism and fraud?

Could PPs please inform me of the way they would like the system adjusted? Is theft a child's crime as long as the stolen goods don't total more than £1000?

Think of the victims families, the perpetrators families, the local community & also think of the perpetrators.

In a lot of cases their is abuse, housing issues, socioeconomic issues, pro-criminalisation, substance misuse, mental health issues, poor physical health and many further points which are typical of the perpetrators of these crimes.

And before someone asks for the links to documents

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2072934/

Please also note I am NOT stating the 2 individuals in this case had any/many of the factors believed to contribute as listed above. However when people are ranting about children being tried as adults it BOILS MY PISS! Children are children. Are no matter how much it would soothe you to know they were tried and treated as adults- it's inflammatory to the cause of rehabilitation

Cagliostro · 19/10/2016 02:36

Horrible situation. I don't think anonymity will last TBH

user1476656305 · 19/10/2016 03:44

" Photos and names should be known so that they can be identified when and if they are released. Murderers shouldn't be helped to get a new identity."

Cartwheel girl - what do you think would happen then? Would this be a good thing in your opinion? So amid your frantic 'virtue signalling' you think that children should be lynched? is that what you are saying? if not it sounds an awful lot like it.

MsJamieFraser · 19/10/2016 04:22

I'm glad there anonymity, saves thousands in tax payers money and also save people from themselves in thinking mob mentality is justified by crimes committed by children.

We have laws for a reason.

user1476656305 · 19/10/2016 04:31

" We have laws for a reason." - exactly Ms Jamie

AndNowItsSeven · 19/10/2016 04:39

It's farcical though because they aren't anonymous its ten seconds on Google.

ohdearme1958 · 19/10/2016 05:12

There are some well informed professionals on this thread. I'd like to ask why the judge said he wanted anonymity for the children when it's obvious they are anything but. Did he really not know this?

WinterIsHereJon · 19/10/2016 06:33

ohdearme1958

It's my understanding that they are automatically granted anonymity due to their age, and that the judge in cases like this can choose to lift that under certain circumstances.

ZuleikaDobson · 19/10/2016 07:05

You also say children "clearly" have the right to anonymity but we know from the James Bulger case that there is no "clearly" about it.

Yes, there is. All rights are subject to being taken away in certain circumstances (e.g. the right to freedom). It doesn't change the fact that we have those rights.

ohdearme1958 · 19/10/2016 07:07

Thank you Winter. Smile

ZuleikaDobson · 19/10/2016 07:15

I think all the efforts should be on helping the victim and their families, on crime prevention and protecting the public

Why should all of that be instead of rehabilitation, rather than alongside it? How does it help the victims and their families for murderers not to be rehabilitated? And, as pointed out, it does prevent crime.

If you are going for the "Throw away the key" model, that in itself causes crime. Under that system, if someone has killed once, they have no disincentive from killing again to avoid arrest. Equally they have nothing to lose by killing prisoners, prison warders and anyone else they come into contact with.

EllebellyBeeblebrox · 19/10/2016 07:37

For what it's worth, I think there will be a serious case review in this case which would hopefully be a learning opportunity for several agencies.

I'm not sure where I stand on anonymity, but for me the severity of the crime and the awfulness of it plays a part in deciding that. It's also frustrating to me as someone who doesn't have a great understanding of the legal system that murder is murder, despite the motivations behind it. Clumsy example, if someone hurt my child I would want to kill them. Some others murder people for fun. Some for revenge or due to mental illness. Same with theft, someone with nothing to their name stealing nappies for their baby, versus someone stealing from their elderly neighbour to buy a new car. Every crime is different.

Alfieisnoisy · 19/10/2016 08:45

Yes there will be a serious case review because Katie Edwards was only 13. I think there will also be very identifying stuff in that which will tell people exactly who the 15 yr old was. I don't see how anonymity can be preserved TBH...I know they will not identify Katie by name but it will be obvious who they are referring to once the background info is given.

What a horrible case all round.

bibbitybobbityyhat · 19/10/2016 08:57

Yes, the inevitability of the names of the murderers becoming known is what prompted my interest in the notion of anonymity in this case. How can it possibly be preserved? It's like trying to push water up a hill. I wonder if the whole concept will be abandoned in the future.

dinosaursarebisexual · 19/10/2016 08:59

Why the fuck are you googling them and checking their Facebook. What is wrong with you people. This isn't entertainment. Would you like some biscuits with your cup of righteous indignation?

WaitrosePigeon · 19/10/2016 09:01

I wonder if the whole concept will be abandoned in the future.

I think you might be right. Especially with regards to Twitter. Shit is always rife on there!

Tomorrowillbeachicken · 19/10/2016 09:03

May well be to protect siblings and family

BastardGoDarkly · 19/10/2016 09:05

Curiosity dinosaur saw ii on the news, read a thread here later, saying there was more to it, and that piqued my interest.

ShowMeTheElf · 19/10/2016 09:07

Children are children.
Doing a terrible thing does not make them an adult. It makes them a child who has done a terrible thing.

www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2010/mar/20/norway-town-forgave-child-killers

ayeokthen · 19/10/2016 09:07

Why the fuck are you googling them and checking their Facebook. What is wrong with you people. This isn't entertainment
I wondered exactly the same.

Tomorrowillbeachicken · 19/10/2016 09:08

14 is very different from 6 though

corythatwas · 19/10/2016 09:10

The lifting of anonymity will put the following people at risk of mob justice and harrassment:

the parents- and we don't know how much responsibility they bear in this particular case (or if both sets of parents are equally, if at all, responsible)

any siblings- and that will be for the rest of their lives, so their families will also be at risk

any other person of a vaguely similar age who happens to look like them (remember what happened with the outing of paedos a few decades ago)- and their families

any person of a vaguely similar age with a vaguely similar name- and their families

As a pp pointed out, people tend to get far more obsessed by a crime when it is perpetrated by a child than when a similar crime is perpetrated by an adult; it follows that the risk of continuing mob justice is a correspondingly greater one.

Andrewofgg · 19/10/2016 09:11

For some people it is entertainment which is why anonymity is essential.

Maudlinmaud · 19/10/2016 09:17

My heart goes out to the family of the victims and the victims themselves.

ayeokthen · 19/10/2016 09:25

People who are entertained by horrific murders, or go googling to find information/Facebook pages need to have a word with themselves. To you its a story, to the people who have lost family members or friends in such a horrific way, it couldn't be further from "interesting" or "entertaining". It's ghoulish and it's practically pornographic to get a kick out of someone else's nightmare.