To think only 3 of the 15 migrant children look under 18

[AmyMiller]

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3843900/amp/First-migrant-children-arrive-UK-Calais-French-prepare-raze-Jungle-camp-ground.html?client=safari

This is so ridiculous, many of them look around 25.

Afraid people do Bit

My young 12 year old was paraded on the front of the daily fail being stretchered off a fatal accident scene.

It's life now. Prior film every thing and we all know the power of a photo can change opinions start massive campaigns and in some cases end wars.

Does anyone really want photos of young vulnerable refugee girls published to satisfy public curiosity?

Nice try bitof but I imagine you know that a young girl would still look like a young girl, or a woman still clearly be a woman if their faces were pixillated. It's done all the time with news reports, with nobody any the wiser as to their actual identity, so I'm afraid that one simply doesn't wash

Live aid stated after a photo and one helped stop the Vietnam war.

Vital tools for change. And vital tools to help change attitudes and enlist sympathy and help.

Public curiosity can lead to massive changes in public perception.

Your argument doesn't make sense.

Yawn, I said that.

It not even remotely a statement that liberals or indeed anyone else, has issued a dictat or is attempting to stop people from discussing these issues.

So who on this thread has actually said the things you are claiming?

But these young people are the responsibility of the UK government. Do you want your government to act like that?

"That one won't wash" I'm not trying to score points. I'm trying to discuss a nasty, complicated issue that impacts upon my life. I am interested in other points of view not winning an argument.

I really don't think we should publish photos of any of these people. Even if it is life now doesn't make it right.

Good point about photos changing opinions, but these people are trying to start lives in the UK and this may harm them.

Bitofacow no one said they don't want their 14 year old son sitting next to '25 year old rapist terrorists' . We don' t want our 14 year olds sitting next to 25 year olds, full stop.
If you think it's safe for adults to (unchecked obviously) share classrooms, playgrounds and other facilities with children, then you are in the minority, and hopefully don't have anything to do with children.

I don't know if photos should be published or not.

It is certainly the case that young children who have previously entered the country from Syria have been photographed and put in the media.

I would far rather that the stats and government's overall policy went through a diversity checking procedure and clear statements about it were issued.

I would want to see that both for the refugees it brings in and the refugees who government aid is delivered to. Any problems with diversity created by the Dublin Agreement could then be balanced out by decisions made about other refugees who we are choosing to take who do not fall under that agreement.

Fuck autocorrect. I meant 14 year olds not son.

If you think it's safe for adults to (unchecked obviously) share classrooms, playgrounds and other facilities with children, then you are in the minority, and hopefully don't have anything to do with children

I don't think it's safe or appropriate for either. I have never come across this happening and was amazed any LEA would consider it. In my experience older refugees are in 14 - 19 provision in FE colleges. I apologise for my exaggeration, I thought it was clear that is what it was. I am sure you will apologise for implying I am not safe to be near children.

Almond I fear your longing for statistics is not shared by many people, which is probably a great shame.

The answer is simple just do some dental and medical tests. They are used all over the world to calculate age, any appointed responsible adult can be used to give consent.

Images of child refugees are freely available on Getty images. Most of the press use this. I know this as I am a designer and we are asked to use a wide variety of images for a variety of purposes. If anonymity was an issue the press would have been asked to stay away or not to photograph or to blur the images. The press I believe are usually briefed on this. They do sometimes overstep limits but I believe where there are safeguarding concerns they do usually blur. I've seen it in a variety of publications from tabloids to magazines. There are guidelines on images of police personnel etc too in that we usually are requested not to show faces etc.

I have no idea why the teens in question look older though...

Jessia0 unfortunately these tests are not accurate when used with people in their late teens and early adulthood because their body is growing and changing so rapidly - or so I have been told.

A 14 year old would almost certainly be in y9 or 10.

David Davis says the rules have to be changed in that we do not accept what a "child" says his age is. But we are all moving away from commonsense here. Are we to believe that most of us have lost our ability to identify and appraise? There are people who do look young for their age, but note the "for their age". Age comes through in loads of small ways I cannot easily describe.

Bit yes I know you arnt point scoring and have completely valid concerns but I really do think that these images of young men paraded as children have hardened people's attitudes where pictures of younger children, including girls, would have received a different public response.

At best the authorities now saying one of the men was a photographer wouldn't occur. No one will belive that now.

YABU - i recently read a book (The Lightless Sky by Gulwali Passarlay) about a boy who was sent by his mother to protect him at 12 years old to go to Europe to save his life - he didn't know where he was headed when he waved his mother goodbye. It took him 3 years to get the UK and what he experienced in that time is unimaginable. He said that the experience made him look much older, everything about him, the way he spoke, the way he held his body the way he reacted to people. He was 15 but they didn't want to believe him when he got to the UK.

It's aillresdy been posted previously by an aid Worker and doctor that generally children who have been exposed to war and brutality usually look far younger than normal and are underdeveloped.

Photos and punlicity stop cover ups and lies from the state. The photos are to our advantage and to that of the few who are genuinely children. The lying kidults on the other hand should be put on the first train back as soon as the age testing proves they are not children and thus the special rules which allow them to be united with family but only if they are a child would not then apply.

And yes I know how different teenage boys can look as I have teenage sons - some can look at lot older than others but even with that some of these huge adults (about 50% are likely to be lying about age) are clearly not children and the tests will prove that and they should then be sent back immediately and/or prosecuted for lying and illegal entry just as if any of us lied to get benefits or otherwise claim a right to lvie here would be jailed and fined.

Why are these "children" being placed with foster parents if they have relatives in the UK? Why on earth did May and Rudd agree to this nonsense.

This is not a PR exercise though (if it were it would be an unmitigated fucking disaster). The idea that sending younger children and girls first for better PR is just not understanding the situation. The Dubs Amendment was only passed this year, the work on assessing the unaccompanied children with UK links has been going on for at least a year. The suggestion that these boys should have been held back so that a more media friendly set of children could arrive first is cynical.

Yes I should think there is a market in family realtionships

I am only very indirectly involved with age deciding meetings. We all write reports saying what we think the age is, teachers, SW, psychologists etc and then basically make a guess.

We all know the individuals and have relationships with them so it is really hard to be clinical and detached but people really do try hard. We do identify and assess and mistakes are made. I would imagine doing it in a camp makes it significantly harder I could not do that job and sleep.

And I'll say it again people from different ethnicities do age differently. Chinese people can look very young when they are not. War and deprivation affect different people differently as the discussion on this thread shows. It really isn't y always equals x.

As for the pictures, I can see why they need to be printed, but it just feels like we are losing any sense of basic morality to feed the baying mob.

Someone said up thread that emotion does not make good policy and that is correct, in the same way pandering to public 'outrage' doesn't make good policy either.

Yesterday, Yes a 14 yr old would be in year 10, lots of FE colleges have 14 - 19 provision.