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AIBU?

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To think only 3 of the 15 migrant children look under 18

1000 replies

AmyMiller · 17/10/2016 19:15

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3843900/amp/First-migrant-children-arrive-UK-Calais-French-prepare-raze-Jungle-camp-ground.html?client=safari

This is so ridiculous, many of them look around 25.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
CondyLisa · 19/10/2016 09:14

I am in Asia and spoke to a group of people on a building site (hard work, outside in full sun, death in 40s very common). I showed them the picture of the guy in blue, and asked his age. They said '40s'. When I told them he was claiming to be under 18, they roared with laughter.

There are quite a lot of people who have had hard lives here, and it shows on their faces, and they may look much older at 30 or whatever (but never at 18 - at 18 they are usually weedy looking), but these people don't show that - they look old, not hard-worn. There is a difference....

DoinItFine · 19/10/2016 09:15

These are refugees on the run from war

No, these are migrants, many thanks of whom claim to be refugees on the run from war because that puts you at an advantage at gaining access to the desirable EU countries.

Not everyone who claims asylum is a genuine refugee. Which is why we don't rely on the "honour system" you mocked yourself.

People sent their children on that perilous journey because it was safer than what they were leaving behind.

Again, no. It is massively simplistic to presume that every migrant travelled for the same reason and faced the same risks.

The awful reality of the world is that life in some places in the world is so insecure abd awful that moving to wealthy countries with welfare states and universal benefits is worth the risk of that journey.

That does not mean everyone willing (and able) to make the journey qualifies as a refugee.

Most refugees are living in massive camps in the countries bordering the warzones. This puts massive pressure on those, often poor and unstable themselves, countries.

The small number that make it into the EU use people smugglers to get here.

Every time we reward someone for making that journey by granting them the chance to settle in the UK as a fast track refugee just because they made it to Calais, we are responsible for the next wave of people taking suicidal risks to get here.

Allowing grown men to get in claiming to be minors is immoral.

It corrupts the (already pretty corrupt) system, it privileges the strong over the weak, it creates more business for traffickers, it reduces publuc support for asylum in the countries that need to provide it.

It's weird how some people's hearts only bleed for things that are happening near them.

They don't mind making a global situation wprse as long as they get a warm glow from helping one person.

shirleyknotanotherbot · 19/10/2016 09:15

Great post aforestgrewandgrew. Unfortunately you're probably wasting your time. Some people have made their minds up and they will not be budged from their narrow-minded bigotry. I am very saddened by views which are now openly shared on social media. This country does indeed seem to be split down the middle and I wish we could find a way out of this mess. Peace and love people.

Wookiecookies · 19/10/2016 09:20

Shirley, please explain to me how questioning the age of these 'men' claiming to be children, equates to narrow minded bigotry?

Floggingmolly · 19/10/2016 09:22

Totally agree, DoinItFine

DoinItFine · 19/10/2016 09:23

There is bigotry in presuming that everyone who doesn't agree with you is evil.

Creampastry · 19/10/2016 09:23

I thought girls would be much more vulnerable yet it only seems to be ...cough cough ... boys (ha ha ha) who gave come over this time....

Children .... joke of the decade!

Bitofacow · 19/10/2016 09:24

Shirley & aforest don't bother, I am enjoying watching the thread as the self justification ramps up.

Attempting to put forward a humanitarian response will be dismissed as sentimental bullshit you are saying to make yourself feel better.

The country is indeed split. Regard this thread as a glimpse into the petri dish, it's fascinating.

DoinItFine · 19/10/2016 09:30

Sentimental bullshit based on a few people you happened to meet is not "a humanitarian response".

Any more than "who cares about the asylum system as long as I get a warm glow from seeing families reunited on the telly".

Lives depend on our doing this right.

Bringing in grown men as minors is clearly undermining the system.

It absolutely deserves to be taken seriously.

Wookiecookies · 19/10/2016 09:30

'Bitof' a true humanitarian response, would not allow grown men to jump the queue and take the place of real vulnerable children. Its just not right no matter how you package it!
Come down from your sanctimonious High horse for just a moment and try to understand why people are angry.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 19/10/2016 09:32

shirley
I'll just tell my Arab refugee DH that he is a narrow minded bigot because he doesn't think that some of these refugees are children as they look considerably older than his teenage and early twenties family members in North Africa.

I am happy to help the refugees but if a programme is set up to protect vulnerable children then it should be children who benefit from it not adults.

taxiforme · 19/10/2016 09:33

"DOB" will have to be decided at some point. So much is governed by it. You can't be a "bit 18" or "kind of 17". You either are or not if you want to apply for a driving licence or say, work with machinery or buy alcohol. However it's done, it will have to be.

We, as a nation, have accepted these people as children. Whether they are, or not, I wonder if they have been made vulnerable anyway by the publication of their photos in this way.

DoinItFine · 19/10/2016 09:35

For some it is about feeling "humanitarian rather than actually being humanitarian that counts.

You can tell by the smugness, the simple answers to a problem that is horrifically complicated, and the virtue signalling.

Anyone who moans about the country being split into good people and bad people, whilst clearly believing themselves to be on the side of righteousness clearly has a bit of a superiority complex.

But as long as they get all the feelz, right? That's what counts here.

shirleyknotanotherbot · 19/10/2016 09:36

There is also a massive lack of respect for those working in this sector. They're working in an area where they actually make a difference to people's lives. Yesterday should have been a day for celebration, not derision. If you guys think you could do a better job perhaps you could have a go? If you're so insistent that this is wrong, write to your MP asking for answers. People sit in their warm houses and judge, judge, judge. I'm thoroughly sickened by the awfulness I see posted all over social media and I think this kind of group mentality 'immigrant' bashing is extremely distasteful.

Some of the comments are ridiculous! 'I haven't seen the photos but... 18 year olds are weedy' You obviously haven't seen our school's 1st XV then!

It is NOT our job to assess these boys. Here's a novel idea - let people do their jobs without suspicion, perhaps even give them our support.

SleepFreeZone · 19/10/2016 09:36

I'm still trying to imagine the guy in blue in a school uniform Confused

Manumission · 19/10/2016 09:36

So there are actually several levels of checks that go on here. These children were allowed to come over because they have family in the UK that could prove that they were children with documentation. Do you really think it was the 'honour' system where they just trusted people were telling the truth?

The Home Office have said it is a system based on physical appearance and that dental checks and X-rays are 'too intrusive'. No mention of documentation (which would be the simplest way to rebut the criticism).

You should read everything the Home Office have said because to me, it's extremely suspicious that a ministry under a Tory government are suddenly sounding like the softest of social workers.

If I was of a paranoid persuasion, I'd wonder whether this scheme is deliberately being set up to fail.

Rattusn · 19/10/2016 09:38

I think op raises a good point, as most/all of these 'children' will not have any documents to prove their age.

DoinItFine · 19/10/2016 09:38

Yes, don't question. That is not your place, plebs.

SoupDragon · 19/10/2016 09:39

Some of the comments are ridiculous! 'I haven't seen the photos but... 18 year olds are weedy' You obviously haven't seen our school's 1st XV then!

Absolutely!

All bar the one who is clearly the vulnerable adult look similar to boys at DSs all boys school ( so I've seen a lot of teenage boys!) Some looked like men from 14, some (like DSs) look like stereotypical teenage boys.

And I have looked at the photos.

DoinItFine · 19/10/2016 09:40

If I was of a paranoid persuasion, I'd wonder whether this scheme is deliberately being set up to fail.

Whom would this help?

And how?

Nermerner · 19/10/2016 09:42

Manumissiin I believe it has been set up to fail. It must have been. It beggars belief otherwise.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 19/10/2016 09:43

shirley
"In the year ending September 2015, 590 asylum applicants had their age disputed and of those, 574 recorded as having an age assessment.

Of the 574 refugees checked, 371 were found to be adults.

Since 2006 there have been 11,121 age disputes. Of those, 4,828 were found to have been adults.

Home Office documents say that refugees “should be treated as an adult if their physical appearance/demeanour very strongly suggests that they are significantly over 18 years of age”.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/18/two-thirds-of-child-refugees-entering-uk-found-to-be-adults-figu/

It is a known problem. If I was in my twenties, stuck in the Jungle and thought I could get out by pretending to be a child I would. The problem is that that leaves a real child behind in Calais who should be in the UK.

Wookiecookies · 19/10/2016 09:44

You are right Doinit, Let this Pleb/judgemental/Bigot be the first to apologise for not wanting grown men to infiltrate a system set up for children. God forbid I should actually care about real vulnerable children being screwed over, that would be just so judgey of me! Hmm

Manumission · 19/10/2016 09:45

Doin It helps anyone who was implacably opposed to the child reunion scheme in the first place; "oops well we tried but look what happened!"

And the polarisation helps anyone wanting to pull that kind of stunt.

Supporting child reunion seems to involve refusing to see anything odd about the photos.

Whilst those opposing the scheme won't criticise its failure.

Easy.

pregnantat50 · 19/10/2016 09:46

where are the female children...they are all male?

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